Freedman out!

[Athers]

We're failing miserably. I'd throw hand grenades at it. The loan wwindow is still open, I'd make the lot available. I'd install Jimmy Phillips, and I'd instruct him to only buy kids and over thirty free and cheap signings in january. F*ck it, go for it, start the rebuild now.

Falling short of that, Pullis is an attractive prospect who isn't a failure. Indeed he's a very good track record.

If we lose at Brighton, something has to be done.

I'd stop going if Pulis was appointed.

[Worthy4England]

Great. Except... We're going to be relegated again this season.

That's just short sighted and short termism. We could end up with more points after 10 games than we has after 10 last season*.

* I'm not holding my breath like...

I've counted my stock of internet pies and I have some spare to wager.

I still have a shed-full from the Coyle era, I have no need to gamble recklessly anymore.

I think similar to yourself, unless there's a bit of a "Damascus" sometime in the next game or so, his days might be numbered to about 10.

[Worthy4England]

Spearman's Rank Correlation at all?

I could answer that, if I knew whether it was a correlation or a coefficient. I think it's the latter, in which case, the answer is rho.

[Worthy4England]

Can anyone who ever said anything along the lines of 'I don't mind us being relegated. It'll be fun in the championship' please just feck off? This is bloody miserable. We're watching shit players playing shit football and getting worried about a trip to bloody Brighton

Agree with this. You want to go to grounds you've not seen? Go watch Bury and Chorley.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The fact is, this club needs rebuilding. The facilities and expectations aside, we aren't a Premiership side and wont be in the near future. Since Sam left (the big 'un) we've been on a downward spiral. We tried to go from a low transfer fee, big wage set-up to a much larger transfer fee set-up in a period when wages shot up. So we've been spending ever more money and getting less quality on the whole. Unsustainable. We've tried to cut our cloth more accordingly and the quality has got worse. Short of a cash injection the only way out is to clear out most of the squad and start afresh with a blend of youth/experience.That will take time.

Lets be honest. If by some miracle we got promoted at the end of the season, without some major spending we'd competing with Sunderland and Derby for shitest points total ever. Whether it is Eddie's money or not, that debt is a millstone and we've got to get rid of it. For me, I'd rather we just get the rebuild done now. It has to happen for the long term health, so best get on with the misery now. Whether that rebuild includes Dougie or not I don't know. But we can't be changing managers every year or 2. So either stick with Dougie for the long term or get someone in for the long term.

[Hoboh]

See this gets me, no offense to Abdoulayes Twin, but rebuild?
The 'best' that can happen as the parachute payments dry up is to stand still, not rebuild we are not like Fergerson and Wenger etc we have not got the success or cash to rebuild into being a successful premier team, more so if we do not go up this season. Rebuilding is the fantasy of the deluded, the never do now'ts 'it'll be reet' fans.
We may as well level the place and sow grass seeds forget any notion of rebuilding.
Freedman if I remember was brought in with a target to get us back in the top flight so cash became available to service player purchase and Uncle Eddies debt repayment and the club could attract decent players.
Clearly Freedman is failing and so is Gartside, what happens when Eddie cannot get his interest money back out of the club? There will be no cash whatsoever to rebuild if we are in this shit league at the end of the season, that is the reality.
Way I see it is Eddie has two choices, stick or twist but with Gartside and his dodgy manager appointments still on board he'd lose either way!
I know the final say on managers/players is Eddies but who recomends them and sings their praises?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Hoboh. Clubs rebuild all the time. Swansea have done it successfully as many others have. We've been unsuccessful for a good number of seasons now and we're going nowhere. What we've been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons hasn't worked, so lets change it. For a long time we've been receiving Premiership money, spending it plus some more and still been going backwards. I believe the best we can hope for if we continue as we have been is a lucky promotion and then treading water in and around the relegation zone. We need to do what we did when Big Sam joined us, or the new equivalent of. That means change. Whether with the current chairman, manager and kit man I don't know, but it does need to change. If that means a couple of seasons of shite then so be it. It's been mostly shite for the last 5/6 seasons anyway.

[Hoboh]

Hoboh. Clubs rebuild all the time. Swansea have done it successfully as many others have. We've been unsuccessful for a good number of seasons now and we're going nowhere. What we've been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons hasn't worked, so lets change it. For a long time we've been receiving Premiership money, spending it plus some more and still been going backwards. I believe the best we can hope for if we continue as we have been is a lucky promotion and then treading water in and around the relegation zone. We need to do what we did when Big Sam joined us, or the new equivalent of. That means change. Whether with the current chairman, manager and kit man I don't know, but it does need to change. If that means a couple of seasons of shite then so be it. It's been mostly shite for the last 5/6 seasons anyway.

Different climate now and I think you will find that most of the clubs that have 'rebuilt' have had an 'Eddie Davies type' behind their rebuilding.
We have had ours I doubt there are many queing up to replace him.
You have to ask yourself why have we gone backwards for 5 or 6 seasons, I'll save you the trouble thinking, after Sam Gartside was so full of himself he got found lacking, all fur coat and no knickers.

[leyther95]

So Freedman hasnt even been in charge 12 months and people want him out the door. We are 7 games in yeah we've had a disastorous start but we know better than anybody, If we go on a good run now say getting 7 points from our next 3 games and you can find yourself sat in the top half. We have 39 games left.

Im not saying we will turn our fortunes and move up the table but getting rid of Dougie wont be the right answer. People just think its the easiest option.

He played Tuesday which apart from Medo for Ream and Pratley for Hall was probably our strongest 11. By dropping Knight hes showing that he is making neccassary changes to help improve the club. I beleive he can turn this round. BELEIVE IN DOUGIE!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Hoboh. Clubs rebuild all the time. Swansea have done it successfully as many others have. We've been unsuccessful for a good number of seasons now and we're going nowhere. What we've been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons hasn't worked, so lets change it. For a long time we've been receiving Premiership money, spending it plus some more and still been going backwards. I believe the best we can hope for if we continue as we have been is a lucky promotion and then treading water in and around the relegation zone. We need to do what we did when Big Sam joined us, or the new equivalent of. That means change. Whether with the current chairman, manager and kit man I don't know, but it does need to change. If that means a couple of seasons of shite then so be it. It's been mostly shite for the last 5/6 seasons anyway.

Different climate now and I think you will find that most of the clubs that have 'rebuilt' have had an 'Eddie Davies type' behind their rebuilding.
We have had ours I doubt there are many queing up to replace him.
You have to ask yourself why have we gone backwards for 5 or 6 seasons, I'll save you the trouble thinking, after Sam Gartside was so full of himself he got found lacking, all fur coat and no knickers.

Whoever the fault lies with, the fact is we've had a series of managers that have failed. Dougie is failing at the moment, but may or may not sort it out. Personally I'd give Dougie a little more time. It is his squad now and he should be able to get more out of it. I would however, be looking to offload half of it at the first opportunity and build again.

[LeverEnd]

I'm afraid I've stopped believing in Dougie, but I don't want him sacked and think he should be given a reasonable chance to turn it round. It's just not logical to believe in him at this point. I started to last season and was very optimistic for this season. that's all gone now.
He's contradicting himself as well, last week we couldn't affford not to put our strongest team out, now apparently he 'can't let results dictate selection'. I know what he thinks about rotation, but if he mixes things up, drops our couple of in-form players and we lose heavily at Brighton he's only got himself to blame if people start baying for his head. It won't work of course, as PG is in the last chance saloon himself with this appointment. It will make for a long drawn out horrible atmosphere if the fans turn en masse though.

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[Lord Kangana]

Spearman's Rank Correlation at all?

I could answer that, if I knew whether it was a correlation or a coefficient. I think it's the latter, in which case, the answer is rho.

Rho?

Is that like X+YxZ= rho?

[BWFC_Insane]

Hoboh. Clubs rebuild all the time. Swansea have done it successfully as many others have. We've been unsuccessful for a good number of seasons now and we're going nowhere. What we've been doing for the last 5 or 6 seasons hasn't worked, so lets change it. For a long time we've been receiving Premiership money, spending it plus some more and still been going backwards. I believe the best we can hope for if we continue as we have been is a lucky promotion and then treading water in and around the relegation zone. We need to do what we did when Big Sam joined us, or the new equivalent of. That means change. Whether with the current chairman, manager and kit man I don't know, but it does need to change. If that means a couple of seasons of shite then so be it. It's been mostly shite for the last 5/6 seasons anyway.

Different climate now and I think you will find that most of the clubs that have 'rebuilt' have had an 'Eddie Davies type' behind their rebuilding.
We have had ours I doubt there are many queing up to replace him.
You have to ask yourself why have we gone backwards for 5 or 6 seasons, I'll save you the trouble thinking, after Sam Gartside was so full of himself he got found lacking, all fur coat and no knickers.

There are many reasons we have gone backwards. One of them is that the money spent by some clubs around us or below us has increased. When Sam was working miracles in the premiership the likes of Cardiff and Southampton were not spending £12M, £15M etc on single players. That is part of the reason. It is very hard without continued investment, and once that investment dries up you are going to suffer. We went down at exactly the worst time. The year before the premiership TV deal went up.

We haven't replicated the success we had under Allardyce but I think part of the problem was we hit a glass ceiling as a club and from then on, rather than look at how we could regain a competitive edge in a different way, we've struggled to cling onto the fruits of earlier success and eventually it has been our downfall. In hindsight when Allardyce left we should have gone and brought in a completely different kind of manager. Someone who wanted to play entertaining football and bring the kids through (but someone who had experience NOT Sammy). And the club should have sent the message out that it was the direction the club wanted to go and everyone needed to accept that, and be patient. Instead we ended up chasing our tails with Megson then Coyle without ever really progressing as a football club.

The end result of all that is now we seemingly have very little money to invest, a promising group of young players who aren't ready yet, certainly not to be pitched into a championship battle under the pressure we are right now, and precious little else. I do think Gartside needs to take some of the blame for that, but equally we need to be balanced. I don't think it is easy to change things at a club with relatively small resources. He's working to Eddie's mandate and probably the one massive mistake he's made was appointing Lee. We can't change that now either. Sacking Gartside now, achieves nothing because his experience in how to run a football club is probably at this stage hard to replace and also it is not a role in the same way a manager is. Gartside's mandate comes from Eddie. We have no idea what that relationship is, and critically how Eddie would replace PG and how it would affect his desire to invest or at least support the club.

I get that you are angry and frustrated but getting rid of Gartside changes nothing, in fact it may make somethings worse. I doubt many chairman have the amount of experience and contacts that PG has built up. For now, we need to stick with that and get on with it. Getting rid will not ultimately change the direction because Eddie is not suddenly going to sanction spending nor is he going to change his views on how he wants the club run.

[Lord Kangana]

That was the same arguments put forward by the banking industry - those with the experience, who got us into this mess, are the most experienced to get us out of it. I'mnot convinced. It'll just see us back here again in another 30 years after a cycle through the lower divisions and then bouncing back. The club needs a rethink.

[Hoboh]

So Freedman hasnt even been in charge 12 months and people want him out the door. We are 7 games in yeah we've had a disastorous start but we know better than anybody, If we go on a good run now say getting 7 points from our next 3 games and you can find yourself sat in the top half. We have 39 games left.

Im not saying we will turn our fortunes and move up the table but getting rid of Dougie wont be the right answer. People just think its the easiest option.

He played Tuesday which apart from Medo for Ream and Pratley for Hall was probably our strongest 11. By dropping Knight hes showing that he is making neccassary changes to help improve the club. I beleive he can turn this round. BELEIVE IN DOUGIE!!

You just don't get it do you?
Fail to go up this season and the club will slip back to the bad old days. Sure garty will walk away with a fat payout but the rest of us will be back to the shitholes of football and I suspect even some of the diehards from lazt time may not be too interseted in revisiting that again

[BWFC_Insane]

That was the same arguments put forward by the banking industry - those with the experience, who got us into this mess, are the most experienced to get us out of it. I'mnot convinced. It'll just see us back here again in another 30 years after a cycle through the lower divisions and then bouncing back. The club needs a rethink.

Yeah I agree on the fresh ideas front. I think it is something to do at the end of the season though (in terms of PG). Not now IMO.

I don't know what the Eddie/Phil relationship is like. Its not like sacking a manager. So I wonder if PG might resign come season end?

[bobo the clown]

.... back to the shitholes of football and I suspect even some of the diehards from lazt time may not be too interested in revisiting that again

I have to say this season so far has had me thinking "what's the point ?" I've already chosen not to go to 2 games this week, despite having a season ticket. After watching them since 1963 this few weeks has been amongst the most dispiriting of them all. Maybe being older means you can see through the false dawns (her again) and don't fall for the hype but you can see the guy is simply floundering.

Chief amongst the malaise is that if DF was to be successful then his 'brand' of football is the George Graham 1-0 type. Not that he's anywhere close to achieving this but that is what we are to aspire to. Plus loads of platitudes and bullshit.

He's a breath of fresh air as a person ... I think. Compare him with Megson and he certainly is. Compare him with the fraud who is St. Owen Coyle and I think he's a genuine bloke. But he really is clueless at the moment.

We can all see that we have the attacking capability to roll teams over, but simply persists in not going that way.

I still can't get past him appointing Knight as captain when he should have been being shipped out.

[Lord Kangana]

I still can't get past him appointing Knight as captain when he should have been being shipped out.

I think that's whats grating with me the most too. He's talked a good game, says he knows what needs doing, indeed, went out and signed Dawson as a priority. And then we end up back at square one, with the same old problems, and in a terribly deep hole. Frankly, whatever we do with Dougie, I fear for the club if we don't get a miraculous set of results between now and Christmas. Simply because we know what we're (not) capable of, and if we experience another slump like this during the season (I hope its just a slump!) we'll find ourselves very quickly back in the relegation zone with the lack of a points cushion we have.

[BWFC_Insane]

.... back to the shitholes of football and I suspect even some of the diehards from lazt time may not be too interested in revisiting that again

I have to say this season so far has had me thinking "what's the point ?" I've already chosen not to go to 2 games this week, despite having a season ticket. After watching them since 1963 this few weeks has been amongst the most dispiriting of them all. Maybe being older means you can see through the false dawns (her again) and don't fall for the hype but you can see the guy is simply floundering.

Chief amongst the malaise is that if DF was to be successful then his 'brand' of football is the George Graham 1-0 type. Not that he's anywhere close to achieving this but that is what we are to aspire to. Plus loads of platitudes and bullshit.

He's a breath of fresh air as a person ... I think. Compare him with Megson and he certainly is. Compare him with the fraud who is St. Owen Coyle and I think he's a genuine bloke. But he really is clueless at the moment.

We can all see that we have the attacking capability to roll teams over, but simply persists in not going that way.

I still can't get past him appointing Knight as captain when he should have been being shipped out.

I don't think the Derby team selection looked like one to grab a 1-0. I also think he's trying to turn us from a side that lumps it forwards all the time, into one that plays football on the floor. That is possibly a painful transition but perhaps in the long run is the right thing to do.

[Lord Kangana]

We said that with Coyle. The evidence isn't exactly in the managers favour.