Freedman out!

[BWFC_Insane]

We said that with Coyle. The evidence isn't exactly in the managers favour.

I'm not sure Coyle really ever changed the style. It was still a lot of huff and puff and play off scraps from Davies/NGog. During Elmanders purple patch we played some nice stuff but a lot was still quite direct to the two big lads up front.

We aren't getting results, but we are definitely trying to pass the ball through midfield, more than I can ever remember us doing.

[Lord Kangana]

I'd disagree, we played some lovely stuff for a while, partly because there was no game plan and whilst everyone was fit we had some decent footballers. But inevitably, with a player like SKD in the side, we just reverted to the big hoof.

Which we still fall back on way too often, but more importantly, if we're not getting the results in matters not a jot what style we play. If its going to take 'til march for a passing game to work, then I'd just prefer to win some games however we manage it.

[bobo the clown]

I don't think the Derby team selection looked like one to grab a 1-0. I also think he's trying to turn us from a side that lumps it forwards all the time, into one that plays football on the floor. That is possibly a painful transition but perhaps in the long run is the right thing to do.

Absolutely correct. It didn't. But why has it taken him 7 games to realise what almost all of us have seen throughout ?

We have choices. We can attack, or we can defend. FFS this is Division 2. We can run at most teams and score goals. Or we can sit back and hope to win on the break and with stout defending. Well, our defence isn't up to the latter .... never mind that it'd be awful to watch. I'd prefer to see us try the former.

Having to have two defensive midfielders on the park simply to support the defence means we create f'call. I'd rather take the risk, create more, score more and expect that experienced and highly paid defenders get on with their job. If we were attacking more they'd have less to defend for a start.

There is NO point having Moritz or Mavies in the background. Their being injured just means he doesn't have the embarrassment of being seen not picking them I think. Lee and Hall and Eagles between them should have teams quaking in their boots. He's confusing the feck of the players ... anyone can see that.

Truly I want him to succeed. But he has to alter his ways ... can he do that ?

[LeverEnd]

I think he has lots of knowledge and good ideas that he's built up through his admirable study of the game and preparation for coaching. This was the main reason for my high hopes for him once things started to turn last season. The problem is that all of it is no use if he can't convey it to the players. Whether it's because they aren't capable of getting it, or he doesn't have the strength of personality or communication skills to pull it off I don't know. It's like an intelligent teacher preparing a fantastic lesson on paper and seeing it all go up up in smoke because it's pitched too high and the kids don't get it. Or they don't want to get it and dig their heels in and the teacher can't get them on side.
You often hear top managers being lauded for their ability to make things seem simple, maybe that's what he lacks.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd disagree, we played some lovely stuff for a while, partly because there was no game plan and whilst everyone was fit we had some decent footballers. But inevitably, with a player like SKD in the side, we just reverted to the big hoof.

Which we still fall back on way too often, but more importantly, if we're not getting the results in matters not a jot what style we play. If its going to take 'til march for a passing game to work, then I'd just prefer to win some games however we manage it.

I think good football is subjective anyhow. We played plenty of good football under Allardyce, some exceptionally good, but it was of a particular style, and rarely was what you'd call "free flowing".

Under Coyle we never played it out from the back Swansea style, through midfield into a number 10 or whatever. I do think that is what Freedman is trying to do, and it may well be the right thing. But as you say, results clearly the biggest issue.

Though one thing I would say about that is Swansea developed a style of play under Martinez that took time to develop and sprout results and then they carried it on under subsequent managers (who were recruited with that in mind) and well, look where it has taken them? I wonder if they had these kind of debates early on?

Something to be said for trying to develop something. I'm not talking here about keeping managers, just in general at a club, deciding on a direction of travel and sticking with it.

[Lord Kangana]

If we get relegated, or even end up so penniless that we have no choice how we play, then sticking to one style of play dogmatically will have been the most pointless idea since Pointy McPointless the agoraphobic took his driving theory test online.

[thebish]

Under Coyle we never played it out from the back Swansea style, through midfield into a number 10 or whatever. I do think that is what Freedman is trying to do, and it may well be the right thing. But as you say, results clearly the biggest issue.

another big issue with this plan is that not many of the players appear to want the ball and a few don't appear to have learned how to pass with any decent level of accuracy...

[BL3]

Seems as though Eddie has had enough of putting money in.

Eddie's reluctance or inability to fund even an emergency loan player now does not bode well.

There you go again. He did put money in. £3-£4M this summer. Dougie has had money to spend. Quite a lot of it in fact, relative to every other club in this league.

We haven't spent anything like that from what Iles and Nixon both say. More like £1.3M according to them.

We spent £1M on Beckford and £2M on Spearing. Plus whatever we end up paying for Hall (up to £0.5M apparently) and the other youngsters he signed.

[jaffka]

I thought that Hall can cost upwards to £2m?

[BWFC_Insane]

Seems as though Eddie has had enough of putting money in.

Eddie's reluctance or inability to fund even an emergency loan player now does not bode well.

There you go again. He did put money in. £3-£4M this summer. Dougie has had money to spend. Quite a lot of it in fact, relative to every other club in this league.

We haven't spent anything like that from what Iles and Nixon both say. More like £1.3M according to them.

We spent £1M on Beckford and £2M on Spearing. Plus whatever we end up paying for Hall (up to £0.5M apparently) and the other youngsters he signed.

Well again according to Nixon, Iles and I think a direct quote from Dougie, we've barely paid a penny for Beckford yet. It is a deal based on future payments if certain performances are met. (Promotion, goals scored, league position etc). So it might end up being £1M or it might not.

[thebish]

smart move, then - to have him performing pretty woefully! saves cash! yay!!

[BWFC_Insane]

smart move, then - to have him performing pretty woefully! saves cash! yay!!

Set you up for that one deliberately....

[BL3]

I thought that Hall can cost upwards to £2m?

http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=126994 ... yYysTcY.99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"A panel agreed that West Ham would receive £450,000 up front for the 19-year-old plus a further £250,000 should Bolton be promoted to the Premier League.

Additionally, West Ham will receive a lump sum from Bolton for the first 100 games Hall plays for them. For Championship appearances the figure is £2,500 per game, and £10,000 per game for Premier League games.

Additionally West Ham would receive 20 per cent of any profit from a future sale. Sam Allardyce, who was present at the tribunal admitted to being reasonably pleased with its outcome."


I bet he was at £2,500 per game! Maybe that explains why he's not been getting a game.

Still, at least we don't have to worry about the Premier League fees.

[89bwfc89]

So Freedman hasnt even been in charge 12 months and people want him out the door. We are 7 games in yeah we've had a disastorous start but we know better than anybody, If we go on a good run now say getting 7 points from our next 3 games and you can find yourself sat in the top half. We have 39 games left.

Im not saying we will turn our fortunes and move up the table but getting rid of Dougie wont be the right answer. People just think its the easiest option.

He played Tuesday which apart from Medo for Ream and Pratley for Hall was probably our strongest 11. By dropping Knight hes showing that he is making neccassary changes to help improve the club. I beleive he can turn this round. BELEIVE IN DOUGIE!!

You just don't get it do you?
Fail to go up this season and the club will slip back to the bad old days. Sure garty will walk away with a fat payout but the rest of us will be back to the shitholes of football and I suspect even some of the diehards from lazt time may not be too interseted in revisiting that again

I just can't see how sacking Dougie will be any better - we will have to pay him out, which is just adding more debt to the debt and there's no one good enough available who would want to come.

Now is the time the fans needs to get behind the team, not, not go to the game because you wonder what's the point. You've already paid your money for your season ticket, you may as well go and show there's still fans to play for.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Can anyone who ever said anything along the lines of 'I don't mind us being relegated. It'll be fun in the championship' please just feck off? This is bloody miserable. We're watching shit players playing shit football and getting worried about a trip to bloody Brighton

Agree with this. You want to go to grounds you've not seen? Go watch Bury and Chorley.

To which some might respond "Want to see proper players at decent grounds? Go watch Man City." Offensive, perhaps, but it's only the same rationale.

I'd rather watch Bolton, wherever we are. I don't think anyone ticked the box saying "I'd like us to go down to a worse league and be even shitter." If we'd gone down and done another 96/97 this conversation wouldn't happen, except perhaps in a vaguely wistful "Ooh it'll be harder next season" way.

Thing is, given the poisonous atmosphere round the club, people WILL be doing both those things: go watch Chorley if they want "real" football, go watch City if they want to see it done well. No point paying nearly as much to sit in a stadium full of in-fighting, where there's more than enough people just dying to say "See?"

[BWFC_Insane]

Can anyone who ever said anything along the lines of 'I don't mind us being relegated. It'll be fun in the championship' please just feck off? This is bloody miserable. We're watching shit players playing shit football and getting worried about a trip to bloody Brighton

Agree with this. You want to go to grounds you've not seen? Go watch Bury and Chorley.

To which some might respond "Want to see proper players at decent grounds? Go watch Man City." Offensive, perhaps, but it's only the same rationale.

I'd rather watch Bolton, wherever we are. I don't think anyone ticked the box saying "I'd like us to go down to a worse league and be even shitter." If we'd gone down and done another 96/97 this conversation wouldn't happen, except perhaps in a vaguely wistful "Ooh it'll be harder next season" way.

Thing is, given the poisonous atmosphere round the club, people WILL be doing both those things: go watch Chorley if they want "real" football, go watch City if they want to see it done well. No point paying nearly as much to sit in a stadium full of in-fighting, where there's more than enough people just dying to say "See?"

Don't think there is in-fighting really at the Reebok.

Just a whole load of shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh and general can't be botheredness amongst the fans (perhaps reflecting the players attitude I wouldn't like to say).

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Aye, possibly.

We spent £1M on Beckford and £2M on Spearing. Plus whatever we end up paying for Hall (up to £0.5M apparently) and the other youngsters he signed.

Well again according to Nixon, Iles and I think a direct quote from Dougie, we've barely paid a penny for Beckford yet. It is a deal based on future payments if certain performances are met. (Promotion, goals scored, league position etc). So it might end up being £1M or it might not.

I don't think there's any doubt that we have spent money this year. And I don't think there's much doubt that this group of players and management is underachieving. (There is much lively discussion about how and why.)

What seems to be happening is that the tap turned off at some point in late summer. At first, it seemed to be about getting high earners off the payroll: Spearing didn't happen until Andrews went. Now, it seems more dogmatically like we can't get any more in until some go out. That might be Eddie, it might be FFP, but it's really not helping. Especially now as two of the men we'd probably like to ship out, Mills and Ream, are in the first XI.

[Lord Kangana]

Next couple of results could easily turn that - say, concede an early goal to Yeovil (even if it ends up a win) and the stadium could get a bit nasty. I remember the "home banker" of Norwich a couple of seasons ago, and I'm wary of the attitude that people will be approaching the game with.

[BL3]

there's no one good enough available who would want to come.

Nonsense.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

there's no one good enough available who would want to come.

Nonsense.

You may be right. Name them.