Freedman out!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The whole shitting in Palace's changing room is literally nothing other than people putting two and two together

Or number twos together.

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't consider us.

Geography; finance; ambition; impending alternatives...

We have been a more successful club than Brighton over recent years

...and there's another: "overachieving club on the way down" is not a Lonely Hearts ad that gets answered by the choosy.

our wage budget will dwarf theirs.

Will it? Hardly like we're being deafened by the splashing of cash.

[thebish]

clearly not - i have allowed places 4 and 5 too - those would still be in the playoffs! the logic of your reasoning is that with our budget this season in this league we SHOULD make the playoffs - no? if not - then i am not sure what your repeated "we can't compete financially in this league" actually means...

I'm saying that every year we're in this league the number of sides with bigger budgets than ourselves is likely to increase.

And our ability to "buy our way out" becomes non-existent. We don't seem to have the ability to do that this season. It will get worse in that respect, I suspect.

You are correct in saying that we should make the play-offs. But as you also say that is no guarantee.

quite... sorry this seems so tortuous!! but if it is no guarantee for us - then budget brings no guarantee for anyone else either.

i still don't understand why you keep saying that this season we can't compete financially - clearly we can and we have done...

[BWFC_Insane]

clearly not - i have allowed places 4 and 5 too - those would still be in the playoffs! the logic of your reasoning is that with our budget this season in this league we SHOULD make the playoffs - no? if not - then i am not sure what your repeated "we can't compete financially in this league" actually means...

I'm saying that every year we're in this league the number of sides with bigger budgets than ourselves is likely to increase.

And our ability to "buy our way out" becomes non-existent. We don't seem to have the ability to do that this season. It will get worse in that respect, I suspect.

You are correct in saying that we should make the play-offs. But as you also say that is no guarantee.

quite... sorry this seems so tortuous!! but if it is no guarantee for us - then budget brings no guarantee for anyone else either.

i still don't understand why you keep saying that this season we can't compete financially - clearly we can and we have done...

I'm not saying we "can't compete financially" this season. However, lets say in a hypothetical world Craig Dawson was available to buy tomorrow and every championship club wanted him and it simply came down to who could bid the most for him. I wonder hypothetically speaking where we'd come in that list?

[SmokinFrazier]

I'm not sure what people are talking about when they mention things off the pitch. Freedman is a new manager, so he has more optimism surrounding him but what has he actually done that is different to what Coyle did? He talks about improving fitness, yet we've still failed to be fit over 90 minutes. He's mentioned the youth lots, yet seems unwilling to give our young players more of a chance and he's talked about working on a low budget, despite spending big money for the division. He's talked about building a solid defence, yet we still concede far too many and look vulnerable in every game. It all sounds good but what positive results have we seen? I don't think it's enough for a manager to merely 'talk' about improving fitness levels, it's only impressive if he actually produces a fit team which Freedman hasn't done so far. I'm genuinely curious as to what makes Freedman different.

I don't really like the constant comparisons to Coyle. He's gone and Freedman should be judged on what he's done, not because he does certain things differently to the guy who had the job previously. Those comparisons are inevitable but not really relevant, I don't think. For what it's worth, I think Coyle is a better manager than Freedman and I'm sure he'll have a much longer career in management. Coyle's win percentage is slightly lower than Freedman's, though he was in the Premier League for the majority of his time with us.

[Bruce Rioja]

On Page 3 of this thread............

Not going to post again on this subject

You're fecking ace, you.

[BWFC_Insane]

On Page 3 of this thread............

Not going to post again on this subject

You're fecking ace, you.

I'm very deliberately not posting on the subject of whether Freedman should or shouldn't be sacked. I didn't say I wouldn't post in the thread again!

[Prufrock]

If you've got Matt Mills, Zat Knight and Keith Andrews on 20K per week, your budget is huge, but it doesn't mean you can compete financially if you can't shift the f*ckers.

[Tombwfc]

I don't see any reason why he wouldn't consider us.

Geography; finance; ambition; impending alternatives...

Geography - He seemed to cope fine up north when he was the assistant manager at Leeds
Finance - In this history of Brighton and Hove Albion football club they've signed one player for over £2m. There are at least seven players who cost more than that currently on our books
Ambition - I have no idea what Eddie Davies's ambitions are, but the current manager has been well backed relative to the other clubs in our division
Impending Alternatives - Which are?

Our wage budget was £55m or so when we went down. I think saying that it'll still comfortably above the £20m mark is reasonable. That will put us comfortably above Brighton's wage budget.

This summer we signed...

Alex Baptiste - Free - Courted by half the Championship, Derby County's chairman called his wage demands 'eye-watering'
Mark Tierney - Free - Free agent signed from Norwich City
Jay Spearing - £1.5m-2m - A first team squad player for Liverpool
Jermaine Beckford - ? - Who knows what we ended up paying, but he was on £35k a week at Leicester. Even if he accepted a 50% pay cut he'd be expensive.
Rob Hall - £450k - Rising based on appearances
Andre Moritz - Free - Cheap and on a short term contract
Conor Wilkinson, Gary Fraser, Hayden White - Kids, fees unknown

Brighton signed...

Rohan Ince - Free - Chelsea youth product who's football career previously amounted to two games for Yeovil Town
Matt Upson - Free - Big name, signed from a Premier League club. I can imagine he is on a decent wage
Adam Chicksen - Free - 21 year old signed from MK Dons
Kemy Augustien - Free - Journeyman Dutch midfielder signed from Swansea City

Bear in mind, all that I said was that he would consider us. Do you honestly believe that he's in a position where he'd dismiss us out of hand?

[Tombwfc]

And all this talk about youth players and FFP is all fine, but what makes anybody convinced Dougie is the man to do it? We're bottom of the league with a squad which has hundreds of Premier League appearances and costs a fortune. How shit are we going to be when we are actually skint and all he's got to work with are the likes of Eaves, Vela and Odelusi?

[CAPSLOCK]

If we are going to look at Freedmans spend, we need to factor in the savings achieved by fcuking off Davies and that waste of space Petrov

Our wage bill now will be in early Allardyce levels

Anyway, I don't give a fcuk, Freedman is the man to sort it

If Gartside thinks otherwise, he's not the man I thought he was

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

If you've got Matt Mills, Zat Knight and Keith Andrews on 20K per week, your budget is huge, but it doesn't mean you can compete financially if you can't shift the f*ckers.

We 'competed' financially to procure those players. The fact we blew our money on those sorts of buys indicates we've not used our finances wisely. For me this is the problem. For 5 or 6 years we've not invested in the team well. We're now reaping the consequences of that.

Current Championship team spending in last 5 seasons:

Spend / Sales / Net

QPR - 76,450,000 / 16,350,000 / 60,100,000
Forest - 19,590,000 / 2,470,000 / 17,120,000
Leicester - 12,725,000 / 6,250,000 / 6,475,000
Bournmouth - 3,300,000 / 1,050,000 / 2,250,000
Bolton - 25,050,000 / 23,400,000 / 1,650,000

I've ordered this by net spend . Every other team is below us and Bournmouth having spent so little is an oddity being above us. It doesn't allow for wage budget, but I'm sure that ours has been one of the highest. Without doubt we have competed financially with every team in the Championship, with the exception of QPR. We may not do so in future, but is different to competing financially now.

[Worthy4England]

If you've got Matt Mills, Zat Knight and Keith Andrews on 20K per week, your budget is huge, but it doesn't mean you can compete financially if you can't shift the f*ckers.

We 'competed' financially to procure those players. The fact we blew our money on those sorts of buys indicates we've not used our finances wisely. For me this is the problem. For 5 or 6 years we've not invested in the team well. We're now reaping the consequences of that.

Current Championship team spending in last 5 seasons:

Spend / Sales / Net

QPR - 76,450,000 / 16,350,000 / 60,100,000
Forest - 19,590,000 / 2,470,000 / 17,120,000
Leicester - 12,725,000 / 6,250,000 / 6,475,000
Bournmouth - 3,300,000 / 1,050,000 / 2,250,000
Bolton - 25,050,000 / 23,400,000 / 1,650,000

I've ordered this by net spend . Every other team is below us and Bournmouth having spent so little is an oddity being above us. It doesn't allow for wage budget, but I'm sure that ours has been one of the highest. Without doubt we have competed financially with every team in the Championship, with the exception of QPR. We may not do so in future, but is different to competing financially now.

You can certainly put us further up that little list, it sort of pre supposes that all the squads started from the same level - which they clearly didn't Our squad was worth more than Bournmouth's 5 years ago, ergo we've added £1m of investment to a squad that was valued at £50+m, 5 years ago.

To be bottom of Div 2, is fecking criminal. The number of players we let go on a free, is also rather bizarre.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

If you've got Matt Mills, Zat Knight and Keith Andrews on 20K per week, your budget is huge, but it doesn't mean you can compete financially if you can't shift the f*ckers.

We 'competed' financially to procure those players. The fact we blew our money on those sorts of buys indicates we've not used our finances wisely. For me this is the problem. For 5 or 6 years we've not invested in the team well. We're now reaping the consequences of that.

Current Championship team spending in last 5 seasons:

Spend / Sales / Net

QPR - 76,450,000 / 16,350,000 / 60,100,000
Forest - 19,590,000 / 2,470,000 / 17,120,000
Leicester - 12,725,000 / 6,250,000 / 6,475,000
Bournmouth - 3,300,000 / 1,050,000 / 2,250,000
Bolton - 25,050,000 / 23,400,000 / 1,650,000

I've ordered this by net spend . Every other team is below us and Bournmouth having spent so little is an oddity being above us. It doesn't allow for wage budget, but I'm sure that ours has been one of the highest. Without doubt we have competed financially with every team in the Championship, with the exception of QPR. We may not do so in future, but is different to competing financially now.

You can certainly put us further up that little list, it sort of pre supposes that all the squads started from the same level - which they clearly didn't Our squad was worth more than Bournmouth's 5 years ago, ergo we've added £1m of investment to a squad that was valued at £50+m, 5 years ago.

To be bottom of Div 2, is fecking criminal. The number of players we let go on a free, is also rather bizarre.

Looking over a longer period we're in the top 2-4, so yes, you're absolutely right. I don't have the figures but I'm sure we'd be top 1 or 2 in the equivalent wage table. It is frightening how poorly we've bought in recent years, especially when compared to Wigan and Blackburn. We may have achieved a little more in the last decade in terms of league places, but at a massive cost.

[Worthy4England]

....Is the top answer...

[Prufrock]

No disagreement, but it doesn't get us away from the fact that having spent money in the past doesn't mean we can spend money now. There's a lot of cash tied up in average players. Better than bottom of this league, of course, but not such that we should be pissing every game 5-0 either.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Geography - He seemed to cope fine up north when he was the assistant manager at Leeds

Earlier in his career, before he rather raised his profile with a promotion and a run to the play-offs. Lasted almost a year too, bless him, before moving south again.

Finance - In this history of Brighton and Hove Albion football club they've signed one player for over £2m. There are at least seven players who cost more than that currently on our books

Past tense, which is where much or your argument is rooted. As acknowledged, he seemed irked that Brighton weren't giving him the money to match his ambitions. Do we strike you as throwing money around at the moment? Presumably not, partly because...

There are at least seven players who cost more than that currently on our books

Yes. And as we have become painfully aware over the past couple of months, past performance is no indicator of future results in this field. I ask again: do we strike you as a rich club?

Ambition - I have no idea what Eddie Davies's ambitions are, but the current manager has been well backed relative to the other clubs in our division

Past tense again. Really, does nothing worry you about the fact that even though we're bottom of the league there doesn't even seem to be the budget to fund a loan signing? Might worry me a tad if I were an unemployed manager with high self-worth.

Impending Alternatives - Which are?

Don't know yet, but there are 43 clubs above us in the league. From all I know bout Poyet, he appears to think he should be managing in the Premier League. We appear to be going in the other direction, and although I've little doubt he'd rather manage us than Barnsley, I also doubt he's so desperate for employment or income that he will jump at the first overspent, overstaffed, overexpectant club who need a messiah.

Our wage budget was £55m or so when we went down. I think saying that it'll still comfortably above the £20m mark is reasonable. That will put us comfortably above Brighton's wage budget.

I don't think he'd go back to Brighton either. Like I say, there were widespread reports that he was unsatisfied with their budget.

Bear in mind, all that I said was that he would consider us. Do you honestly believe that he's in a position where he'd dismiss us out of hand?

Yes, Tom, I honestly believe that; I'm too busy to argue things I don't believe. Maybe he wouldn't dismiss us out of hand, but while the league table doesn't help, the financial feck* we appear to be in - somebody else's overpriced squad (largely Coyle's, but by your own rationale now also considerably Freedman's) and all the noises coming out of the club about a lack of cash, not to mention FFP coming in at a club with falling attendances. Anybody notice that this year's Leeds attendance was 2k lower than last year's, Derby 3k down?

And all this talk about youth players and FFP is all fine, but what makes anybody convinced Dougie is the man to do it?

I'm not. I hope to be convinced. I'm more convinced that it's him than it is Poyet.

Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I would expect him to wait for a Premier League club or one which should have the finance to get up there. That's why he was after the Reading job even before Brighton's play-off games: classy.

[BL3]

That's why he was after the Reading job even before Brighton's play-off games: classy.

That's just complete rubbish. He was given permission by Brighton to speak to Reading when they were in the Premier League. He then turned down the job, presumably because he felt that Brighton had more chance of being in the Premier League the following season.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

That's why he was after the Reading job even before Brighton's play-off games: classy.

That's just complete rubbish. He was given permission by Brighton to speak to Reading when they were in the Premier League. He then turned down the job, presumably because he felt that Brighton had more chance of being in the Premier League the following season.

Ah, here comes Mr Selective Quote.

So, let's examine your fingernail-paring of a point:

That's just complete rubbish.

Interesting way to start a post. Wasted a word or two in the middle there. Could've saved your fingernails.

He was given permission by Brighton to speak to Reading when they were in the Premier League.

And how does this contradict my point that he would be rather self-interestedly angling for a Premier League job?

He then turned down the job

Well, I suppose that's a positive, that he thinks carefully about his own options before f*cking about with two clubs' fans. Oh no, hang on...

presumably because he felt that Brighton had more chance of being in the Premier League the following season.

And how does this contradict my point that he would be rather self-interestedly angling for a Premier League job?

Back to your first bit:

That's just complete rubbish.

In what way did anything you typed thereafter disprove what I'd said - that he was after the Reading job before Brighton's play-offs?

I know you love Gus Poyet - big Mick must be disappointed - but you'll have to try harder than that, BL3. After all, you've only picked out one sentence from many, although that's hardly new, is it?

[BL3]

In what way did anything you typed thereafter disprove what I'd said - that he was after the Reading job before Brighton's play-offs?

He wasn't 'after' the Reading job. If he was, he would have taken it. You've also 'selectively' left out the word 'classy', which you originally used to imply that he was touting for the Reading job. He wasn't. They approached Brighton. He didn't approach them. These are just basic facts which aren't even that difficult to check.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

In what way did anything you typed thereafter disprove what I'd said - that he was after the Reading job before Brighton's play-offs?

He wasn't 'after' the Reading job. If he was, he would have taken it. You've also 'selectively' left out the word 'classy', which you originally used to imply that he was touting for the Reading job. He wasn't. They approached Brighton. He didn't approach them. These are just basic facts which aren't even that difficult to check.

He could be after a job and then turn it down for whatever reason. You'd also be naive to believe that Poyet wasn't sounded out for interest before an approach was made to Brighton, whether that be directly or indirectly.