The Great Art Debate

[William the White]

Going down to Hastings for family do this weekend.

We're doing it by train so will pass through London each way.

I fancy the exhibition at the Saatchi gallery - Paper. I loved the exhibition of Paper artworks at the Manchester Art Gallery last year - went to it twice - and this one looks like it may be very interesting. Good range of reviews...

http://www.saatchigallery.com/current/paper_reviews.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Your descriptiion of the Manchester one sounded interesting, but this one doesn't appeal at all.

[William the White]

Your descriptiion of the Manchester one sounded interesting, but this one doesn't appeal at all.

Manchester was great because the art was conceived for and constructed in paper and had brilliant variety from tiny miniatures to huge abstracts.

Saatchi was less than great because, for the most part the art was produced ON paper (as opposed to canvas etc) which left me feeling 'so what?'

Each room had some good work in it - but the majority didn't interest me very much. some that did include...

'Posturing' by Rachel Adams - painted waxed paper draped over wooden frame offered a ghostly sculpture that seemed like three women clinging together... displayed well, room to move around the work, to see what shifts in perspective offered...


'Floating City' by Han Feng is made from tracing paper - a city hanging from fishing wire a few inches off the ground - ethereal, fragile, beautiful.. .

'Golden arch Parkway' by Yuken Teruya is a delightful collection of miniatures cut from discarded materials - like a McDonald's takeaway bag. Each miniature is a tree - so paper returned to its original form, and beautiful.

You may be able to find online images of these. I've not tried.

Worth popping in for these and a few others on your way to the Royal Court...

[Athers]

Attended a 90th birthday this weekend and said lady is the granddaughter of Charles Napier Hemy, as such she had plenty originals on the walls (all featured the sea of course). I believe they are out of fashion and I am a total layman when it comes to art but quite interesting nonetheless.

[Raven]

Not sure it art thread or photo thread as photo of a painting


Painting of a Ford GT40 by Talie64, on Flickr

[William the White]

The Culture Show visited the Venice Biennale... slightly formulaic, and too short and polite to truly investigate the polar opposites as a fan of modern art and one of renaissance art tried to convince each other of the virtues of their individual passions...

Always nice to see Venice though, and toy with the idea of a visit for the 2015 Biennale - my wife saying 'I'd love to do that...' Tho I shudder to think of the price of a hotel room...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The Culture Show visited the Venice Biennale... slightly formulaic, and too short and polite to truly investigate the polar opposites as a fan of modern art and one of renaissance art tried to convince each other of the virtues of their individual passions...

Always nice to see Venice though, and toy with the idea of a visit for the 2015 Biennale - my wife saying 'I'd love to do that...' Tho I shudder to think of the price of a hotel room...

I really enjoyed it - agree that it was too short in the sense that I could have watched hours of that stuff.

The truth of the matter is that they are not really polar opposites, so it was a little bit contrived, I agree.

Interesting to see Bendor Grosvenor on screen for the first time, anyway - I read his blog all the time. http://www.arthistorynews.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[William the White]

Up my street and just down the road...

Latest from the Cornerhouse... will report having seen it...

http://www.cornerhouse.org/art/art-exhi ... 9ve-got-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It finished today. I saw it on Thursday. It was over three floors in six rooms. Only one thing was at all interesting - a wordless film when a young Chinese couple walk around a newly constructed district for the rich. Is this worth a revolution? i guess, is the question. The place is clean, hygienic, false, alien and repellent.

The rest was unremittingly dire and barely connected with the - alleged - theme of the exhibition.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I found this little place recently, Will. I think you would like. http://www.estorickcollection.com/home.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[William the White]

I found this little place recently, Will. I think you would like. http://www.estorickcollection.com/home.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is certainly one I will pursue... Have you visited? Thoughts?

[thebish]

some powerful imagery here from Erik Ravelo (Cuban artist) - his project "Los Intocables"

1. RC paedophilia.
2. Sex abuse tourism in Thailand.
3. The Syrian war.
4. Black market organ trafficking
5. The US fascination with guns.
6. Obesity and the fast food connection.

[William the White]

A week in Valencia for three of us gave us the opportunity for some new discoveries in art and of artists. We managed five galleries, all of which contained the humdrum and the brilliant.

Our favourite was IVAM - the Valencia Institute of modern Art, and, especially, the three rooms devoted to the sculptor Julio Gonzalez. He began in realist mode, working in a small scale with detailed reliefs in bronze, often of female faces. He became more and more abstract in his work and expanded his materials to include iron, wood and clay. I didn't know his work at all, but all of us really enjoyed.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=julio ... =649&dpr=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Montreal Wanderer]

A week in Valencia for three of us gave us the opportunity for some new discoveries in art and of artists. We managed five galleries, all of which contained the humdrum and the brilliant.

Our favourite was IVAM - the Valencia Institute of modern Art, and, especially, the three rooms devoted to the sculptor Julio Gonzalez. He began in realist mode, working in a small scale with detailed reliefs in bronze, often of female faces. He became more and more abstract in his work and expanded his materials to include iron, wood and clay. I didn't know his work at all, but all of us really enjoyed.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=julio ... =649&dpr=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He worked with Picasso and, like Pablo, did all his work in France.

[William the White]

On our final morning in the city we spent two hours at Valencia Cathedral - a building on a more human scale than the monstrosity in Sevilla. It was, of course, stuffed with the usual idolatries of Spanish Catholicism - including a statue of the virgin and child before which pregnant Valencianas traditionally pray, make an offering, and then circle the cathedral nine times thinking of each month's pregnancy of the mother of God. We witnessed one mother-to-be doing this.

One chapel contains a bleak Goya painting as confessor and hounds of hell tussle for the soul of a dying man.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h ... CDEQ9QEwAA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The highlight has to be the famous Holy Chalice - which, we are assured, is the actual chalice used by Christ at the Last Supper. At the very first performance of the Eucharist this vessel contained the blood of the Saviour. From the official website... In English... Lots of stuff about Holy Grails - TANGO will love it.

http://www.catedraldevalencia.es/en/el- ... storia.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[TANGODANCER]

The highlight has to be the famous Holy Chalice - which, we are assured, is the actual chalice used by Christ at the Last Supper. At the very first performance of the Eucharist this vessel contained the blood of the Saviour. From the official website... In English... Lots of stuff about Holy Grails - TANGO will love it.
http://www.catedraldevalencia.es/en/el- ... storia.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Been reading about Holy Grails most of my life Will, I've always tended to be very sceptical of claims of valuable objects coming from the last supper of a man working as a carpenter in a Nazareth village. Like all else associated with the grail, its best religious feature is that no one really knows anything about it. I love cathedrals for their history, architecture and works of art. I discount nothing but I try to keep in in proportion. All of it's man made, the gold and jewellery and art.

You can pray to God in a cave.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I found this little place recently, Will. I think you would like. http://www.estorickcollection.com/home.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That is certainly one I will pursue... Have you visited? Thoughts?

I have.

It's essentially just a small townhouse and the product of one man's collecting, so that's partly why it's so interesting, but also why it's not necessarily worth a visit in its own right.

I remember you liked Severini and there are a couple of very interesting pieces of his here. Essentially it is a very high quality collection of early 20th century Italian art and very well 'rounded' in the sense that Severini, Modigliani, Balla, Boccioni, di Chirico, Morandi and others are all represented.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I went to see the big Lowry exhibition at the Tate yesterday.

I feel as though I learnt a lot but am not necessarily nearer to a settled evaluation of him.

My strong preference is for his paintings between the wars, at street level, which feels sharply observational, rather than his later work from a false, birdseye viewpoint, which feels contrived.

For me, the Tate itself inadvertently identifies the problem with those big, later works, with this:

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... -l-s-lowry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I started it on the plain canvas I hadn’t the slightest idea as to what sort of Industrial Scene would result. But by making a start by putting say a Church or Chimney near the middle of the picture it seemed to come bit by bit.

I think later he lapsed into going through the motions, starting "near the middle" and seeing what happens, with very derivative results.

One complaint for us - in the first room 'Going to the Match' (1953) was there, a picture well-known to most of us, and nowwhere on the label on the wall or leaflet guide did it mention that it was Burnden Park! In the few minutes I was standing there, I furnished at least half a dozen people with this information when they wondered out loud. Goodness knows how many people will have been left in unecessary ignorance by the time the exhibition is over.

[William the White]

I went to see the big Lowry exhibition at the Tate yesterday.

I feel as though I learnt a lot but am not necessarily nearer to a settled evaluation of him.

My strong preference is for his paintings between the wars, at street level, which feels sharply observational, rather than his later work from a false, birdseye viewpoint, which feels contrived.

For me, the Tate itself inadvertently identifies the problem with those big, later works, with this:

http://www.tate.org.uk/context-comment/ ... -l-s-lowry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When I started it on the plain canvas I hadn’t the slightest idea as to what sort of Industrial Scene would result. But by making a start by putting say a Church or Chimney near the middle of the picture it seemed to come bit by bit.

I think later he lapsed into going through the motions, starting "near the middle" and seeing what happens, with very derivative results.

One complaint for us - in the first room 'Going to the Match' (1953) was there, a picture well-known to most of us, and nowwhere on the label on the wall or leaflet guide did it mention that it was Burnden Park! In the few minutes I was standing there, I furnished at least half a dozen people with this information when they wondered out loud. Goodness knows how many people will have been left in unecessary ignorance by the time the exhibition is over.

Write to the the buggers and put em straight...

I got my dad a print of that for his birthday - he was pleased...

Another time I found a reproduction of the Tube advert for Wembley 1926... The FA Challenge Cup final - Go on the Underground... Nice design though) He was born in 1926 and 3 months later we won the cup... He liked that an all...

Didn't necessarily do well with the other 82 birthdays tho...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Write to the the buggers and put em straight...

I got my dad a print of that for his birthday - he was pleased...

Another time I found a reproduction of the Tube advert for Wembley 1926... The FA Challenge Cup final - Go on the Underground... Nice design though) He was born in 1926 and 3 months later we won the cup... He liked that an all...

Didn't necessarily do well with the other 82 birthdays tho...

Ah, what's the point... they obviously don't think the detail is important. The catalogue is an interesting enough read, and in many respects I think they did a good job under difficult circumstances - i.e. this bizarre divide between Lowry champions and Lowry haters - but they are two American-based art historians who will not be interested in Bolton Wanderers.

'Going to The Match' is an interesting picture for all sorts of reasons, though.

Oddly, there isn't a single good picture of it online.

This is about the best (and even this doesn't show the 'RS' of 'Wanderers' - the wording and setting not disimilar 40 years later when I started going to Burnden with my dad).



A couple of questions:

1. Was it ever really as 'open' as that around the ground? I remember a car park where everyone is walking in the picture, but to the right, and beyond right?
2. How common was it for young lads to go to the match in 1953? One of the striking things for me about the painting is that, upon closer examination, there are no children. I think I was looking for a dad and lad pairing so I could place myself and my old man in the picture, but there is none.

Anyway, I do like it and may well get a print for my house. For me it stands out as being one of the rare successes of his work post WW2 work. There's something about the way he's got the figures being drawn to Burnden like iron filings to a magnet that just gets the atmosphere right somehow.

Interestingly, there is stronger Bolton (town, not football club) connection than I was aware of.

The following, in the catalogue, was from him reminiscing in conversation about when he first became enamoured with the industrial landscape... I will have to type it out because it's not on the internet:

I did a lot of walking in those days [before WW1], I was a good walker. And almost every Saturday night, particularly in winter, I would walk from Pendlebury to Bolton. I chose Saturday night because there was more life on a Saturday night, and I chose Bolton because I thought - still think - it's more alive than Bury and other places. I used to set out about half past four, walk to Bolton, go to a cafe and look around and drift back some way, possibly by train, all sorts of ways. At Kearsley there used to be a colliery that went right across the road. As you walked towards the colliery you could hear the clanking and thump of the engines getting louder and louder, and then you would be on it, and then you would pass it and the sounds would fade. I would carry that impression in my mind all the way to Bolton and it would be with me when I sat down in Seymour Mead's cafe, and I suppose I would forget it in the main streets because I liked the life and the bustle. But it would come back to me as I made my way home.That's how my obsession with the industrial scene started: Saturday night, walking the road to Bolton, and hearing the thump, thump,of the machine at Kearlsey Colliery. And coming back in the dark: thinking and thinking, thinking of the mystery of it all.

[Bruce Rioja]

^ It's dreadful. Truly awful. I'll never understand the popularity of Lowry. Went to an exhibition of his at Salford Uni some years ago and discovered to my horror that with the passing of time he actually managed to produce work that got progressively worse.That terrace to the right - the roofless Lever End - could you point out to me how, without the aid of a rope ladder, spectators are meant to take up their positions?