Freedman out!

[Wandering Willy]

can anyone explain why despite the passage of time, the change of manager / management team, change in training/coaching methods, a significant change in player personnel, an increasing number of trusted previous colleagues/ players being recruited, the same line about a weak and losing mentality in the dressing room keeps getting trotted out and this hasn't been remotely addressed in a 12 month tenure ?

I can, Freedman's rubbish

[jaffka]

can anyone explain why despite the passage of time, the change of manager / management team, change in training/coaching methods, a significant change in player personnel, an increasing number of trusted previous colleagues/ players being recruited, the same line about a weak and losing mentality in the dressing room keeps getting trotted out and this hasn't been remotely addressed in a 12 month tenure ?

I can, Freedman's rubbish

It would appear that he is proving that way but like all our managers I want them to do well.

I would like nothing better than to wallop Yeovil 5-0 and go on a great run, however the previous results have sapped my beliefs somewhat.

[Wandering Willy]

can anyone explain why despite the passage of time, the change of manager / management team, change in training/coaching methods, a significant change in player personnel, an increasing number of trusted previous colleagues/ players being recruited, the same line about a weak and losing mentality in the dressing room keeps getting trotted out and this hasn't been remotely addressed in a 12 month tenure ?

I can, Freedman's rubbish

It would appear that he is proving that way but like all our managers I want them to do well.

I would like nothing better than to wallop Yeovil 5-0 and go on a great run, however the previous results have sapped my beliefs somewhat.

We all want the whites to win

But if we had 6 points after 9 games under anyone else they'd deserved sacking.

[jaffka]

can anyone explain why despite the passage of time, the change of manager / management team, change in training/coaching methods, a significant change in player personnel, an increasing number of trusted previous colleagues/ players being recruited, the same line about a weak and losing mentality in the dressing room keeps getting trotted out and this hasn't been remotely addressed in a 12 month tenure ?

I can, Freedman's rubbish

It would appear that he is proving that way but like all our managers I want them to do well.

I would like nothing better than to wallop Yeovil 5-0 and go on a great run, however the previous results have sapped my beliefs somewhat.

We all want the whites to win

But if we had 6 points after 9 games under anyone else they'd deserved sacking.

I am nearly with you, see what happens on Saturday.

[LeverEnd]

We seem to be a quite a patient bunch these days. Maybe Dougie is still benefiting from the fading benefits of not being Megson? That helped Coyle a lot.

[thebish]

look...

if the purse-strings have been eased, the club are hardly gonna sack dougie in the week that he spends the cash...

dougie ain't going immediately after the yeovil game - whatever the outcome.

[jaffka]

look...

if the purse-strings have been eased, the club are hardly gonna sack dougie in the week that he spends the cash...

dougie ain't going immediately after the yeovil game - whatever the outcome.

He might not do but peoples opinions can change.

[a1]

more quotes off somebodies CV

allardyce got the sack at blackpool and preston , while in lower divisions than we were. notts county were also in a division below ours. i'm not sure if he didnt get relegated once with notts county, then got em back up. if any of those backroomers came to bolton their CVs wouldnt have been 'any good' in the same way fullertons and flemings arent. but somehow we got into europe by finishing that high up in the top flight.

if they get relegated about 4 weeks before their contracts run out then maybe they shouldn't extend it. but you carnt hold it (lack of the best cv in the world) against them yet. i dont think.

[jaffka]

It is still going on 7 years later so presumably it hasn't been a total flop. And the claim is that players have been brought through.

It's hardly a terrible thing to have on your development coaches cv. Nor does it make them any good. It's just hardly damning evidence as Hoboh was trying to paint it.

So you are now saying that having this on his CV is neither a good or bad thing?

Who are the player who have been claimed to have come through?

[SmokinFrazier]

Which is where I'm at. I liked Coyle because of his history with us (it bought him time with me, perhaps too much, though admittedly, I don't think he was ever a sophisticated tactician), it just seems that whats unfolding in front of my eyes is the same (worse?!) than 12months ago, but certain sections of our support are so deperate to believe that we have a superb manager, they don't want to contemplate what they're actually seeing in front of their eyes.

Lets be clear,this isn't a couple of games blip,a bad result (say like Todd's 5-2 at Southend, or even Allardyce's long winless run), we're getting well beaten by all comers.

Freedman's defenders are always keen to point out that we're only 8 games into the season but whilst that's true, it's not like Freedman has been exceptional for us in the past either. He has the exact same win percentage for us that Coyle had, yet the difference is that Coyle managed a struggling team in the Premier League for the majority of his run. We've gone from being the underdogs in almost every game to being the favourites, yet we're winning the same amount of games. This is clearly unacceptable. Freedman career win percentage is 34%, way below Coyle (41%) and below Megson (36%). Freedman has the second lowest career win percentage in the entire Championship, with only Gary Bowyer (33%) being lower, and it should be noted that Bowyer has only managed 21 games in his career and he's also at Blackburn, which has been terribly run off the field.

...and people say we should have faith? In what? Freedman is an awful manager.

We aren't on a bad run right now, the anomaly is the good run we had last season.

[Worthy4England]

Yet one is hailed as shite and the other deserves more games despite the worst start since anyone on here was born.

Go on then, I'll bite. There was a downward trend with Coyle for around 58 games....that game that we don't mention at the big house in London onwards, + a season + 10 games the season after. He was deservedly shunted.

We replaced him with Freedman, who a majority of folks who don't play Championship Manager said "who?". There was a very flat period from his appointment until February, when he picked it up (so as a Club, it was the first time we'd made positive forward progress for around 78 games by then), which culminated in us finishing 7th. Not good enough, but good enough to give Freedman a start this season as Manager.

This season has been utter dogshit. One was still shite, the other one I don't believe should get many more games (deserving or not).

[BL3]

Douglas on the other hand came across as a bit of a deep thinker.

In theory he might. In practice, not so much.

[BL3]

allardyce got the sack at blackpool and preston , while in lower divisions than we were. notts county were also in a division below ours. i'm not sure if he didnt get relegated once with notts county, then got em back up.

He wasn't the manager of Preston, he left when the manager was sacked. He took Blackpool to the play-offs. Notts County were top of the 'division below ours', having just been promoted with a record number of points from the division below that. If Dougie had that kind of record, he might have a bit more credibility.

[BL3]

He's not Coyle, who had been bitterly disappointing.

Yes, i remember that bitterly disappointing season which we spent the majority of in the top half of the Premier League and reached our first F.A. Cup semi-final for over a decade.

[Bruce Rioja]

He's not Coyle, who had been bitterly disappointing.

Yes, i remember that bitterly disappointing season which we spent the majority of in the top half of the Premier League and reached our first F.A. Cup semi-final for over a decade.

All of which ended in bitter disappointment, wouldn't you agree?

[Sponge]

He's not Coyle, who had been bitterly disappointing.

Yes, i remember that bitterly disappointing season which we spent the majority of in the top half of the Premier League and reached our first F.A. Cup semi-final for over a decade.

Ah yes, I too remember that joyously fantastic season in which we suffered one of our most humiliating defeats in decades (at Wembley, no less) and capitulated in league to finish a few places above relegation.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Which is where I'm at. I liked Coyle because of his history with us (it bought him time with me, perhaps too much, though admittedly, I don't think he was ever a sophisticated tactician), it just seems that whats unfolding in front of my eyes is the same (worse?!) than 12months ago, but certain sections of our support are so deperate to believe that we have a superb manager, they don't want to contemplate what they're actually seeing in front of their eyes.

Lets be clear,this isn't a couple of games blip,a bad result (say like Todd's 5-2 at Southend, or even Allardyce's long winless run), we're getting well beaten by all comers.

Coyle just rubbed me up the wrong way. I can't be doing with middle-aged blokes in shorts and long socks who are quite open about the fact they don't have a very cerebral and tactical approach to the game.

I've always found Freedman appropriately dour and serious - and I just can't get worked up to wanting rid of him given that the Club's trajectory was so firmly established before he got here. That's not the same thing as wishful thinking about his attributes.

[a1]

He wasn't the manager of Preston, he left when the manager was sacked. He took Blackpool to the play-offs. Notts County were top of the 'division below ours', having just been promoted with a record number of points from the division below that. If Dougie had that kind of record, he might have a bit more credibility.

i know. i'm just saying folk can get better.

i'm also saying in a roundabout way, that getting promoted from division 4 is no more better than never being a manager that low in the first place. but dont mean it in the kinda dick way that it reads even though it might be fact.

a lot of it is apples and oranges.

thats why i think they should keep him.

[truewhite15]

He's not Coyle, who had been bitterly disappointing.

Yes, i remember that bitterly disappointing season which we spent the majority of in the top half of the Premier League and reached our first F.A. Cup semi-final for over a decade.

Oh, do feck off with your selective quoting.

Yeah, he had a good spell, which lasted about a year - from about March 2010 to March 2011. He was shite just a bit longer than that though.

Do you deny that Coyle oversaw 18 months of absolute dogshit without the slightest clue of how to stop the rot?

[StaffsTrotter]

He's not Coyle, who had been bitterly disappointing.

Yes, i remember that bitterly disappointing season which we spent the majority of in the top half of the Premier League and reached our first F.A. Cup semi-final for over a decade.

Oh, do feck off with your selective quoting.

Yeah, he had a good spell, which lasted about a year - from about March 2010 to March 2011. He was shite just a bit longer than that though.

Do you deny that Coyle oversaw 18 months of absolute dogshit without the slightest clue of how to stop the rot?

but even with that 'absolute dogshit' we only just got relegated. all ifs and buts but if we'd not thrown away the lead against wba or tim ream had headed a yard either side in the stoke game, or if wigan had not pulled a phenomenal late run out of the hat, we would have survived.

aside for everyone wanting to deal in absolutes, the thing which frustrates me is how come we haven't been able to carry through reasonable form from a preceding season into the start of the next, for the last couple of years.