Freedman out!

[SmokinFrazier]

Quelle surprise. We record a good result and both Thompson and Fraiser aren't on here. What a pair.

We now have 5 points from 10 games! Celebration time! Keep this magical form up and we might finish 23rd in the league instead of rock bottom!

Freedman

This result was not 'good', it just wasn't 'bad'. It's not the result Freedman wanted and it doesn't alter my hope that he gets sacked as soon as possible, though I don't think he will be after tonight. Do you honestly think that any of the Freedman detractors have been proven wrong because of tonights result? Of course not. He's an inept manager and he deserves to be sacked as soon before the next game. I've thought that for several games now, it hasn't happened, we've dropped more points and he's still no closer to being sacked. Let's get the champagne out because we drew.

Just out of interest, what did you think of the three loanees tonight? did they make the team worse?

I wasn't at the game but from all accounts, they played well. I'm not surprised about McNaughton and I was glad to see we managed to get him on loan, which I hope can be extended. Danns and Feeney seem to have played well, which is good to know too.

[Jez]

This result was not 'good', it just wasn't 'bad'.

We went to a side holding a play off place who have already beaten Reading and Watford at home this season, kept a clean sheet and its "not bad?"

This is the kind of result that would have gone down decently in our attempted promotion run in and relative to our current season it is a very good result. If it wasn't for a bogdan mistake that you can't fairly blame dougie for at the weekend then we'd have had two clean sheets in two games. He is making clear improvements at the back and once someone decides to shoot between the posts (maybe instead of at them, medo) there is no reason we cant put this relegation battle ordeal behind us.

[danardif1]

I think this is despite the depression of it all an interesting time for the club... we can't afford to take the 'traditional' route that football clubs go when results are below par and sack the manager, so Bolton are now in a position where they can be a decent test case for regression to the mean in football, and whether sacking (or in our case not sacking) a manager makes a blind bit of difference.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23724517

Also referenced in the article is the fantastic book 'The Numbers Game'. The essence of the idea is that the traditionally cited upturn in results attributed to new managers is basically nothing to do with that change. Many people think that Paolo Di Canio 'kept Sunderland up' last season, when actually he only won 3 games, one of which was a local derby where normal form patterns are less important than the occasion. Sunderland most likely would've won the same number of games under Martin O'Neill and again this season Di Canio has been sacked for the team's poor start to the season when perhaps the owner should've waited longer to see if the team's results regressed back to the mean.

A team may lose a lot of games at the start of the season, but recover and regress to the mean of their true quality. A good case is Reading in their promotion season a few years ago. They lost 4 of their first 6 games and were 23rd in the table, yet finished comfortably top by the end of the season because their results averaged out. They lost 10 games in the league, with just under half of those coming in that one 4 game run.

Reading were rightly praised for giving the manager time to sort things out, but what they were really doing was just allowing the law of averages to play out. Bolton in their current financial state can't afford to fire yet another manager, so are forced into allowing the team to average out. If we are relegated, it's because the average of this team is equivalent to that position, but I somehow don't think it is.

[ChrisC]

This result was not 'good', it just wasn't 'bad'.

We went to a side holding a play off place who have already beaten Reading and Watford at home this season, kept a clean sheet and its "not bad?"

This is the kind of result that would have gone down decently in our attempted promotion run in and relative to our current season it is a very good result. If it wasn't for a bogdan mistake that you can't fairly blame dougie for at the weekend then we'd have had two clean sheets in two games. He is making clear improvements at the back and once someone decides to shoot between the posts (maybe instead of at them, medo) there is no reason we cant put this relegation battle ordeal behind us.

Agree with this. Very good result when Blackpool have scored and won every home game this season until last night.

Let's hope this is the start of a recovery.

Birmingham game is on SKY on Saturday so it will be nice to see an away game. Birmingham will be boosted after their 4-0 win last night but no reason we can't go there and win if we have our scoring boots on.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it is clear that Dougie has known the issues all along. Personally I think he was restricted in the summer with what he could do.

He made a misjudgement in sticking with Knight and to a lesser extent Wheater. I'm not convinced by Ream as a centre half but he has had a couple of decent games. Still think aerially he is weak and teams could take advantage. Mills has started to look the part IMO. He is slow but then Ream with a little extra pace helps negate that somewhat.

I also think he has stuck too long with LCY, who just hasn't be delivering. But again perhaps he didn't have the resources to bring another winger in.

When he's talked about getting players in the side who know the division and want to play for us, it is clear what he means and what he intends. And certainly it is a necessity. But because we've got wasters on big wages tying up resources and Eddie seemingly isn't budging much, it is a slow process and will continue to be.

The so called "quality players" we had before haven't delivered with the exception of Eagles. So time for a clean slate I reckon and a rebuild of the squad as quickly as the resource allows.

For me this season is a write off in terms of getting up. We just have to stay up now and rebuild. The improvement in effort last night noted by Simon Charlton (who has been scathing of us this season so far) suggests that we need to continue to let Dougie bring in players who a) want to play here b) don't over-promise and under-deliver.

[BL3]

According to you the likes of Mills and Ream were amongst these 'wasters' not that long ago. As was Sordell, who scored for Charlton last night. If Dougie had such a clear idea of what was needed, why has it taken him so long to address the problems? Don't pretend he wasn't backed in the summer, because he was. These loan players 'want to play for us' because in the case of Danns and Feeney in particular, they're not getting a game for their other Championship clubs. Does that mean they don't want to play for them, or they're just not good enough?

[BWFC_Insane]

According to you the likes of Mills and Ream were amongst these 'wasters' not that long ago. As was Sordell, who scored for Charlton last night. If Dougie had such a clear idea of what was needed, why has it taken him so long to address the problems? Don't pretend he wasn't backed in the summer, because he was. These loan players 'want to play for us' because in the case of Danns and Feeney in particular, they're not getting a game for their other Championship clubs. Does that mean they don't want to play for them, or they're just not good enough?

I'm please that Mills and Ream are looking better. I certainly wouldn't get overexcited about them yet and given their wages both have a long way to go to be in credit. But perhaps both having a point to prove is helping them, and if they respond in the right way, then great.

As for Sordell, he's scored yes, but his start at Charlton has hardly been golden. Their fans lets say have been at best "underwhelmed" and I mean at best. And him staying here or not was clearly about a bit more than football. Lad clearly wants to be down South and wasn't doing the business here. We paid far too much money for him that is for sure.

The "being backed thing" is not about was he given anything to spend, he spent according to the Bolton News £1.3M in the summer. Beckford cost essentially nothing. And that was the up front fee for Spearing. However, we have players like Knight, NGog, LCY on big wages who haven't backed it up with the required performances (or effort). We're carrying them in the squad plus others who just haven't been good enough. They need replacing. And he hasn't had chance to do that.

I don't care what manager we've got, shipping those out and re-building is what we need to do.

Dougie hasn't helped himself with Beckford I agree with that. But no manager will get every signing right. At least, and it is a small crumb of comfort, but at least the players he is bringing in seem up for the fight right now.....

[BL3]

If Beckford's fee is dependant on performances, it's no surprise that he's been essentially 'free' so far. The figure of £1.3M you've quoted doesn't even include what we've paid for Hall and the others he signed. Five points from ten games, suggests that Dougie also has 'a long way to go to be in credit'.

[Prufrock]

I'm a Dougie defender but I don't see how it's clear he's known the issues all along! I'm not sure we'd be where we are if he did!

Hopefully, from the last few games where performances have picked up, it seems that *now* he knows the problems (PROBLEMS, not issues ).

Whislt it's promising, I'm not as quick as some to be over the moon at a 0-0 away at Blackpool after drawing at home to Yeovil.

[Hoboh]

Saturday is the big crunch if we can build on last night then fine Freedman may just have seen the chink of light regress and he's got to go!

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm a Dougie defender but I don't see how it's clear he's known the issues all along! I'm not sure we'd be where we are if he did!

Hopefully, from the last few games where performances have picked up, it seems that *now* he knows the problems (PROBLEMS, not issues ).

Whislt it's promising, I'm not as quick as some to be over the moon at a 0-0 away at Blackpool after drawing at home to Yeovil.

Personally I think he's known them but has been unable to move the high earners on and was stuck with having to keep them sweet to an extent.

Perhaps he underestimated how much of a problem it all was. I don't know.

I just get the impression he wanted to do more in the summer. He said at the midpoint he expected 4 more signings during the window. Only got Spearing after that so I still think he knew we were not right.

I think he's got it wrong with Beckford and ultimately that could be what costs him his job if we don't start scoring and picking up results. Agree that a 0-0 at Blackpool is ok but not something to be over the moon about. I do think though that whoever we have in charge a big re-shape of the squad is needed. Without having lots to spend that is going to take time and probably be frustrating whoever is doing it.

[LeverEnd]

Yes Beckford is the key for DF. He's staked a lot on the guy and so far it's been a disastrous signing that has cost us points. He might pick up but I doubt it.
Sometimes players are on a downward career trajectory and can't turn it round. Sadly I think he is one. Hope I'm wrong because I thought he would be a decent signing, with some reservations.

[Hoboh]

I'm a Dougie defender but I don't see how it's clear he's known the issues all along! I'm not sure we'd be where we are if he did!

Hopefully, from the last few games where performances have picked up, it seems that *now* he knows the problems (PROBLEMS, not issues ).

Whislt it's promising, I'm not as quick as some to be over the moon at a 0-0 away at Blackpool after drawing at home to Yeovil.

Personally I think he's known them but has been unable to move the high earners on and was stuck with having to keep them sweet to an extent.

Perhaps he underestimated how much of a problem it all was. I don't know.

I just get the impression he wanted to do more in the summer. He said at the midpoint he expected 4 more signings during the window. Only got Spearing after that so I still think he knew we were not right.

I think he's got it wrong with Beckford and ultimately that could be what costs him his job if we don't start scoring and picking up results. Agree that a 0-0 at Blackpool is ok but not something to be over the moon about. I do think though that whoever we have in charge a big re-shape of the squad is needed. Without having lots to spend that is going to take time and probably be frustrating whoever is doing it.

If that was all he'd got wrong this thread would not be here!

[Ianmooreslovechild]

I'm a Dougie defender but I don't see how it's clear he's known the issues all along! I'm not sure we'd be where we are if he did!

Hopefully, from the last few games where performances have picked up, it seems that *now* he knows the problems (PROBLEMS, not issues ).

Whislt it's promising, I'm not as quick as some to be over the moon at a 0-0 away at Blackpool after drawing at home to Yeovil.

Personally I think he's known them but has been unable to move the high earners on and was stuck with having to keep them sweet to an extent.

Perhaps he underestimated how much of a problem it all was. I don't know.

I just get the impression he wanted to do more in the summer. He said at the midpoint he expected 4 more signings during the window. Only got Spearing after that so I still think he knew we were not right.

I think he's got it wrong with Beckford and ultimately that could be what costs him his job if we don't start scoring and picking up results. Agree that a 0-0 at Blackpool is ok but not something to be over the moon about. I do think though that whoever we have in charge a big re-shape of the squad is needed. Without having lots to spend that is going to take time and probably be frustrating whoever is doing it.

Agree with much of this altho in the present circumstances I think the result and performance at Blackpool is more than ok and i dont believe the success of Beckford is the factor that DF will fall or not by. He's a £1m striker who has in previous spells scored plenty albeit at a level lower. He's starting to get a few chances and a goal could make all the difference but how the team is progressing as a whole is what DF will be judged on not one player.a fit C Davies may also help.

I do think DF has had problems shifting players out and has had to give them a crack as they are on a good wage and have some ability if not a good mindset. He's also been hampered by the loss of key creative players like Holden Moritz and MDavies. He's tried to give knight responsibility in the hope he will get focused(he didnt) and he's played Wheater who after injury seems even slower than before. He couldnt move them on and has been brave enough to drop them after giving them a reasonable chance. CYL is essentially is a touch/give and go player.He's not got the players he shone with here anymore and as a result doent offer much. The likes of eagles(who strikes me as an arrogant toss happy to play the maverick diva without the balls or belief to really fully achieve his potential) and Ngog who has never been a goalscorer for all his potential have now been dropped in favour of players with a bit less ego and more application and desire.

We have been carrying too many players with a high opinion of themselves but lacking in real application and desire, that attitude spreads through a team and I think it's been a problem this season. People raised their eyebrows at the Blackpool lineup but he picked players with the right attitude and by all accounts even Beckford looked to be putting the effort in. Keep that core and it will lift the crowd and move the team forward,might even make the wastrels pull their fingers out if/when they get the opportunity.

To me it does feel like a turning point. It was quite a brave selection but the effort put in lifted the crowd and it may just give us some momentum. Whether the high earners will rise to being left out or just be happy to collect their wages is down top their own temperament . At leat now it's been made clear that what they were putting in wasnt enough. It's strong management ,a good result and definitely the most positive thing to happen this season.

[bobo the clown]

What I fail to "get" here is that after a summer where we/he/they must have been pretty optimistic, a full training and pre-season to get a grip we are loaning possibly 4 players in this window after 10 games with no win and 5 points and apparently unsure of his best team or system.


... & I keep coming back to his deciding Knight was captain material.

[raba]

Good afternoon chaps, Palace fan in peace.

Thought I'd have a look to see what your opinion of DF is compared to ours at a similar time last season & am not surprised at the divide of opinion.

If history repeats itself he's due a good run of results but do your players have it in them to buy in to his way of thinking?

Good luck for the season, always had a soft spot for Bolton after smashing a local girl when at a stag weekend in Manchester

[Ianmooreslovechild]

I guess if he was actively trying to move players on then finding he couldnt that could make for a pretty dishillusioned start and attitude.Freedman wouldnt have the players he wanted and some of the players he has would know they werent really wanted.Course we wouldnt know but it seems quite possible and would make some sense of events. As for knight I till think the captaincy thing was a misplaced attempt to get more out of the man the words feckless and hapless were invented for.Some people rise to responsibility and leadership,sadly knight typically appears to sleep through it.

[StaffsTrotter]

I guess if he was actively trying to move players on then finding he couldnt that could make for a pretty dishillusioned start and attitude.Freedman wouldnt have the players he wanted and some of the players he has would know they werent really wanted.Course we wouldnt know but it seems quite possible and would make some sense of events. As for knight I till think the captaincy thing was a misplaced attempt to get more out of the man the words feckless and hapless were invented for.Some people rise to responsibility and leadership,sadly knight typically appears to sleep through it.

strange though how 2 of the players he supposedly wanted to move on and who many wrote off, are now forming (early days I know) a reasonable CH partnership;

Wrt Knight the sooner people stop treating him as a pantomime villain the better. I think he's OK and I'm not sure on what basis the leadership/ respect he has from within the team can be judged by people not in the team - is it the shouting/ arm waving sydrome again. If, of course myself, DF and all the other managers who have picked ZK are wrong and he is as bad as some folk think, then the captain decision together with our new CH partnership were both bad judgement calls by DF

[SmokinFrazier]

I don't think Knight is as bad as some claim either. He's made some awful mistakes recently but he's not as bad as some make out, though I do think he's past his best and on a fairly quick decline. For me, he'd be the last choice at centre back but he's not a bad 4th choice option. For me, Wheater and Ream should be the way to go though Mills seems to be doing well too, which is good to see. The way Ream and Mills were written off provides a good example how fickle fans are though. If Ream has a bad game against Birmingham, there will be people on here calling for him to be dropped and talking about how useless he really is, whereas if Beckford scores, there'll be people talking about how he's a 'natural finisher' who 'just needed games' and so on. This seems to be a common theme throughout football at the moment though and one of the most extreme cases I can think of is Pellegrini at City. The way the fans changed from the Newcastle game to Cardiff, and from the United game to Villa is ridiculous.

Individual results and performances are irrelevant, what matters is how a team/individuals perform over a prolonged period of time.

[bobo the clown]

I will hold my hands up to being someone who wrote Ream off, at centre-half especially. He's obviously got a second wind (first even ??) and long may it last.

Knight ? He has experience and capability, but there is a serious mistake in him every time he steps onto the pitch. As for being Captain .... well, really ????