Do Owls poo in the Reebok woods?

[thebish]

bit of a cop out there enoch. Obviously you favour giving him more time, so you must either have a period of time in mind that you think is reasonable to give him to do what he needs to do and then be properly judged result/ performance wise; or you think he should just carry on irrespective of short term results or perfomance in the cold assessment or feverish hope that an upturn is just around the corner.

i really don't see why it is obligatory to have a set number of games and a target around which you would have a concrete opinion about sacking a manager... i think there's room for all sorts - I'm happy to sit alongside enoch and just hope for the best - it's served me right enough to this stage in life...

talk of managers' track records as if it some kind of predictable science is just a bag of bollox (in my humble opinion!)

[LeverEnd]

Their league form under Holloway was significantly worse than under Dougie, you could argue that they sneaked the playoff semi because Brighton bottled it and Zaha had a great night, then won a close contest in the final and that they got lucky.
You could also argue that they lost their manager out of the blue when things were going well, stuttered then came good when it mattered and Holloway led them to an unlikely and gutsy playoff triumph.
I'd swap Dougie for a good candidate if one were available, but not for Holloway. However I think Enoch is being unduly harsh on Holloway and reading too much into a short spell of form under Dougie. Yes it was impressive, but would he have maintained it? We just don't know.

[Harry Genshaw]

They only just went up. Keep in mind I think Palace were 2nd when he left and they just made the play offs after an awful run.

They went up. All the whys & wherefores are irrelevant Dan. You may remember West Ham criticising us for 'only scoring from set pieces'. The history books still show that they were relegated and we stopped up!

[SmokinFrazier]

I can understand people not wanting to switch manager just yet, even though I obviously disagree, but there are two points to be considered. Firstly, with every dropped point, we become even less attractive to a manager with any ambition. Had Freedman been sacked after Blackburn, potential candidates wouldn't have been concerned about our poor start because they'd have plenty of time to turn it around. However, that was seven games ago and we're still not picking up points, so the job for any potential replacement is even harder now and the play-off spots are become more and more distant. The longer this goes on, the less promising the job is. Secondly, there aren't a lot of suitable managers out there right now and if we wait even longer, that list is only going to get shorter. Steve McClaren would have been alright by me but he's obviously gone to Derby. Boro will be looking at someone like Martin O'Neil or Tony Pulis, both of who would be fine with me too. If Holloway is sacked, that's another club who will be in the market for a market at a similar level to what we're after. As crazy as it sounds, if Newcastle hammer Sunderland and they fail to win in their next, say, 3 games, there'll be calls to replace Poyet too.

The point is, even if you think Freedman deserves another few games to turn things around, can we afford to wait that long? Can we afford to lose more points and for the best potential replacements to be taken by clubs who have been more decisive? I don't think so. Those who want Freedman to stay on must have a lot of faith in him; faith I think is unfounded.

[LeverEnd]

As crazy as it sounds, if Newcastle hammer Sunderland and they fail to win in their next, say, 3 games, there'll be calls to replace Poyet too.

No there won't! Unless you have a Mackem supporting twin?

[thebish]

I can understand people not wanting to switch manager just yet, even though I obviously disagree, but there are two points to be considered. Firstly, with every dropped point, we become even less attractive to a manager with any ambition. Had Freedman been sacked after Blackburn, potential candidates wouldn't have been concerned about our poor start because they'd have plenty of time to turn it around. However, that was seven games ago and we're still not picking up points, so the job for any potential replacement is even harder now and the play-off spots are become more and more distant. The longer this goes on, the less promising the job is. Secondly, there aren't a lot of suitable managers out there right now and if we wait even longer, that list is only going to get shorter. Steve McClaren would have been alright by me but he's obviously gone to Derby. Boro will be looking at someone like Martin O'Neil or Tony Pulis, both of who would be fine with me too. If Holloway is sacked, that's another club who will be in the market for a market at a similar level to what we're after. As crazy as it sounds, if Newcastle hammer Sunderland and they fail to win in their next, say, 3 games, there'll be calls to replace Poyet too.

The point is, even if you think Freedman deserves another few games to turn things around, can we afford to wait that long? Can we afford to lose more points and for the best potential replacements to be taken by clubs who have been more decisive? I don't think so. Those who want Freedman to stay on must have a lot of faith in him; faith I think is unfounded.

who are you talking to?

anyway... we are higher up the league from the moment you called for the manager to be replaced - you wanted him replaced when we were bottom... so - waiting longer has made us more attractive by your argument, no?

[thebish]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

[mrkint]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

Resigned, according to (probably not) itk sources

[jaffka]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

What do you get for playing in the prem this year?

Their board can sack him and still be quids in, can ours

[Worthy4England]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

So we change weekly, until we find the winning numbers.

[mrkint]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

Resigned, according to (probably not) itk sources

Resignation turned down, another meeting tomorrow

[Enoch]

you seem to have an extraordinary faith in your man Freedman.

I joined this site after Freedman's appointment because having been a fairly regular attendee at Palace during his reign, I thought I might add something; I may have been misguided.

For me, the fortunes of BWFC come before any individual. Do I think Freedman is the best person to manage the club through what is clearly a difficult period? Certainly not. Do I think the club's long term interests would be better served by employing one of the journeyman managers that are repeatedly suggested as candidates? None that I would pin my faith on.

Freedman is not my man, I'd prefer to see Alex Ferguson in the job.

[LeverEnd]

also - just to point out - the amazing Palace with the amazing Holloway have 3pts from 8 games...

appointing managers is simply a lottery... anyone claims otherwise is bonkers!

Resigned, according to (probably not) itk sources

Resignation turned down, another meeting tomorrow

On his confrontation with supporters, Holloway added: ‘I felt their disappointment to be honest, because it was a London derby and we lost. I didn’t think the Fulham supporters were very respectful singing: “Can we play you every week.”’

Respectful?!?! What? On his way today surely.

[boltonboris]

He's an absolute weapon

[StaffsTrotter]

bit of a cop out there enoch. Obviously you favour giving him more time, so you must either have a period of time in mind that you think is reasonable to give him to do what he needs to do and then be properly judged result/ performance wise; or you think he should just carry on irrespective of short term results or perfomance in the cold assessment or feverish hope that an upturn is just around the corner.

i really don't see why it is obligatory to have a set number of games and a target around which you would have a concrete opinion about sacking a manager... i think there's room for all sorts - I'm happy to sit alongside enoch and just hope for the best - it's served me right enough to this stage in life...

talk of managers' track records as if it some kind of predictable science is just a bag of bollox (in my humble opinion!)

Course its not obligatory. Since Enoch said it was too soon, I was just trying to tease out how he figured out when it wouldn't be, or on what other basis he would make his judgement. As you say crossing your fingers and hoping for the best is one way of doing it, but I assume on that basis we'd have managers until they decided to move on.

Completely agree that track record like stock investments is no guarantee of future performance and with the likes of DF he's at the start of his career and got to work a while to make his track record. He's clearly more of an unknown and therefore more of a gamble - all you can go on is what he says and does and decide if you think he's walking the right talk.

[Enoch]

Since Enoch said it was too soon, I was just trying to tease out how he figured out when it wouldn't be, or on what other basis he would make his judgement.

I don't think I said it was too soon.

[StaffsTrotter]

Since Enoch said it was too soon, I was just trying to tease out how he figured out when it wouldn't be, or on what other basis he would make his judgement.

I don't think I said it was too soon.

sorry thought you were advocating patience, which I took to mean give him more time, which by implication meant it was too soon to give him the heave ho.

I now have no idea but thats nothing new

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Since Enoch said it was too soon, I was just trying to tease out how he figured out when it wouldn't be, or on what other basis he would make his judgement.

I don't think I said it was too soon.

sorry thought you were advocating patience, which I took to mean give him more time, which by implication meant it was too soon to give him the heave ho.

I now have no idea but thats nothing new

Enoch wants Ferguson. If it comes to that, so do I... Senior not Junior obviously.

[Enoch]

Senior obviously!!

I think what I was saying, though I've been to sleep since, was along these lines. Given where we appear to be as a club, changing the manager for one of the likely suspects is unlikely to make much difference to our long term prospects.

Just my view, I may well be wrong.

[Lord Kangana]

I don't think anyone has come out with a Souness/Reid/O'Leary, have they? Pulis? I'm not sure he's a "usual suspect" - his record is up there with Allardyce. Certainly galaxies ahead of anything Dougie has on his CV. Whether he's come or whether we want him is moot.