Freedman out!

[boltonboris]

Could it not be that our most creative players are out with injury; those that have failed to perform under Coyle haven't shown that they are willing to for Dougie either; those who we would like to move on won't leave as they'd be hard pressed to find a better contract elsewhere and that we don't have the cash to allow Dougie to sign the players that he'd like?

Just as we'll really, because he's signed some bloody shite!!

[LeverEnd]

Could it not be that our most creative players are out with injury; those that have failed to perform under Coyle haven't shown that they are willing to for Dougie either; those who we would like to move on won't leave as they'd be hard pressed to find a better contract elsewhere and that we don't have the cash to allow Dougie to sign the players that he'd like?

The ones he's signed haven't really come through for us, have they

Exactly, argument is not without truth but ignores the fact that his biggest signings have all disappointed. If they were going great guns but being let down by the 'dead wood' that he can't shift, then fair enough.
When he came in I was not impressed. Then listened to what he had to say and was quite hopeful that when he got his own players in things would be different.
Medo, Baptiste, Davies all came in with decent reputations and have all been a disappointment, and he's had them a while now. No excuse for that. It's clear to me now that he simply isn't anywhere near as good as he thinks he is.
Outlining a 'vision' or a long-term plan is one thing. Communicating it to players and making it work on the pitch is another and he is failing spectacularly at that.

[StaffsTrotter]

here's an interesting article regarding sean dyches 12 months in charge at burnley.

compare and contrast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24728244" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mrkint]

What he also had to change was the mentality of some Burnley supporters.

"When I got here, the club was in transition after coming down from the Premier League [in 2010]," explained Dyche.

"You know what it's like. There are some who believe they should still be in there and, to balance that, there are some who accept the club is where it's at and it needs to build again.
"We had to bring everyone together and settle them down. We've affected the things we could affect, and the things that we can't, we've said we can't.
"We are a 'town club' and a club that supports the town, and that link has become more authentic with the realities. They're not negative realities, they're just realities."

[SmokinFrazier]

Not every club that goes down has to rebuild. A few of the people who defend Freedman make arguments that a rebuilding process is inevitable and things have to get better before they get worse, which is absolutely untrue. QPR aren't doing that, West Ham didn't and Newcastle didn't either. We don't need to get rid of all out best players, build a team full of average but hard working players before we eventually build a strong side capable of promotion in 5 years time. It's nonsense. We had the ability to get into the play offs last year and had that happened, we'd have been only 3 games off being back in the Premier League. The rebuilding process was completed with our good run last year, yet instead of Freedman building upon that and mounting a serious attempt for promotion this year, we've obviously regressed.

A significant reason behind the difference between QPR, West Ham and Newcastle and sides that have failed to regroup, is that their managers are/were Redknapp, Allardyce and Hughton. Unfortunately, our managers since relegation have been Coyle and the even worse Freedman.

[boltonboris]

QPR's player turnover has been ridiculous.. they have rebuilt. But they've been afford that luxury through a very generous and wealthy owner coupled with large parachute payments, the likes that have never been seen before.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A significant reason behind the difference between QPR, West Ham and Newcastle and sides that have failed to regroup, is that their managers are/were Redknapp, Allardyce and Hughton. Unfortunately, our managers since relegation have been Coyle and the even worse Freedman.

Yeah, that and a shitload of cash spent.

Again, I'm not saying Freedman is perfect. That would be as simplistic and wrong-headed as idly comparing those three situations to ours.

[Jez]

When it comes to sides bouncing back in their first season down dougie had a very good attempt at that, something that makes it hard to give up all my faith in him.

[boltonboris]

When it comes to sides bouncing back in their first season down dougie had a very good attempt at that, something that makes it hard to give up all my faith in him.

And that's the only reason he's still here.. He's SHOWN he's capable.

but at the moment, he's showing his ineptitude

[BL3]

QPR's player turnover has been ridiculous.. they have rebuilt. But they've been afford that luxury through a very generous and wealthy owner coupled with large parachute payments, the likes that have never been seen before.

QPR have brought in six players, we've brought in eight, not including loan signings.

We've spent £3M, they've spent £10M but their net spend is less than ours.

[boltonboris]

Su you agree that they've rebuilt?

[BL3]

Su you agree that they've rebuilt?

Of course they have but so have we. Freedman has brought in eleven first team players so far this season. It's not all down to 'shitloads of cash' either. Burnley have also rebuilt but they haven't spent anything on transfer fees, they brought in six free transfers at the start of the season.

[Wandering Willy]

I'd like to sugar coat this but I can't.

Freedman is shite.

Coyle in a suit.

[bobo the clown]

When it comes to sides bouncing back in their first season down dougie had a very good attempt at that, something that makes it hard to give up all my faith in him.

The trouble is, and this isn't 'new' thinking ... I said it at the time ... that great run which took us from 20th or so to 6th was not filled with convincing displays. It was a great run, great point collecting and "it's results that matter" etc., etc. But his return to ineptitude puts that run into perspective for me.

He's confusing the fans. I think he's confusing the players. I'm not certain he isn't confusing himself !!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Plus, a lot of the run up the table was also down to other teams having a less than convincing time. If only two of the clubs above us had also put in mini runs of above average results, our ascent would have seemed merely mediocre.

[Sponge]

Plus, a lot of the run up the table was also down to other teams having a less than convincing time. If only two of the clubs above us had also put in mini runs of above average results, our ascent would have seemed merely mediocre.

Nonsense logic.

[SmokinFrazier]

A significant reason behind the difference between QPR, West Ham and Newcastle and sides that have failed to regroup, is that their managers are/were Redknapp, Allardyce and Hughton. Unfortunately, our managers since relegation have been Coyle and the even worse Freedman.

Yeah, that and a shitload of cash spent.

Again, I'm not saying Freedman is perfect. That would be as simplistic and wrong-headed as idly comparing those three situations to ours.

I see your point, though I think the importance of spending can be overstated. Its not a guarantee of success and when you've been a Premier League side for such a long time and have a very strong squad for the league, spending isn't essential. I don't think it's a valid counter argument on its own. It'd be nice if we could have spent £10m this summer but did we need to? I don't think so, we just need a manager to get the best out of the players we have.

[norm the jedi]

I see your point, though I think the importance of spending can be overstated. Its not a guarantee of success and when you've been a Premier League side for such a long time and have a very strong squad for the league, spending isn't essential. I don't think it's a valid counter argument on its own. It'd be nice if we could have spent £10m this summer but did we need to? I don't think so, we just need a manager to get the best out of the players we have.

You continue to pedal the strong squad delusion look at the results man!
Saying it over and over again won't make it true, results are the key indicator of squad strength and ours are as plain as the nose on yer face... Strong squads of good players do not produce this return consistently ...
Spending cash on the wage bill won't guarantee success and sustainability...
It'll improve yer chances somewhat...

[StaffsTrotter]

well what i took from the article was
- similarities - 12 months of manager, reference to expectations, lancashire town club in Ch ship
- contrasts - how long were Burnley in PL compared to us and when did they go down, so think expectations bit was a red herring. Smaller squad than us. Guess less finance than us. Smaller crowds. Not as good facilities. We didn't lose our star striker or anyone the manager didn't want to last close season. In terms of transfer business would we have had any of their acquisitions than ours ?

current progress/ outcomes - well going pretty shit for us and good for them

reasons - notwithstanding luck, runs of form etc, given the above isn't it down to management ?

in the debate above - we can all agree that every team rebuilds to some extent every season (isn't the important thing how much choice the manager has in business done and how he makes the best of whatever situation he's given to operate in)
money is important but not the be all otherwise QPR would never have come down & burnley wouldn't be where they are
I think you'd have to be 1 eyed not to agree with bobos point about last seasons good run
norm - your squad = result assertion doesn't follow, just as money spent doesn't - even strong squads of good players need organising and motivating to be a team which is where the manager proves his worth and earns his corn

[a1]

I'd like to sugar coat this but I can't.

Freedman is shite.

Coyle in a suit.

that 'jumper with a zip on the side' thing that megson wore (weared?) were pretty cool.

its like he had them made up special.

i'd buy one