Today I'm angry about.....

[Prufrock]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

[Hoboh]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

They have no place in society so why not do away with them, Paedophiles I mean but then again, I could stretch this to the uncureable, dangerous mentally ill.
We pity too many who would fail to show us any, until we learn the world will always be a dangerous place.

[Prufrock]

That would be fine if the only options were 'kill them' or 'let them go'.

[William the White]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

They have no place in society so why not do away with them, Paedophiles I mean but then again, I could stretch this to the uncureable, dangerous mentally ill.
We pity too many who would fail to show us any, until we learn the world will always be a dangerous place.

Not half as dangerous as planet hoboh - where they execute people for being ill... Nice to see hoboh had to 'stretch' a bit to get to this point... He's all heart really... Just won't let it rule his head...

And... What must it be like to be inside hoboh's head? All these execution fantasies, day after day... Not healthy if you ask me...

[LeverEnd]

It's too easy to just describe people who do awful things as mentally ill. I's be disgusted by someone who had sexual desires for babies, but if they addressed this and sought help without harming anyone I would also feel pity for them.
But this guy must be beyond help. What he did was predatory, manipulative and as good an example of what evil is as you are likely to find.
As for anger, there may well be no point, but this sort of thing does make me angry, it's a visceral thing. I don't whipping myself into a morally outraged frenzy over it but I certainly feel anger and don't think the man deserves any help at all. Why waste time and money psychoanalysing and trying to rehabilitate him? I know it's a slippery slope but it's one I'd be willing to risk it in a case like this. His rights are of no concern to me.

[Prufrock]

It's too easy to just describe people who do awful things as mentally ill. I's be disgusted by someone who had sexual desires for babies, but if they addressed this and sought help without harming anyone I would also feel pity for them.
But this guy must be beyond help. What he did was predatory, manipulative and as good an example of what evil is as you are likely to find.
As for anger, there may well be no point, but this sort of thing does make me angry, it's a visceral thing. I don't whipping myself into a morally outraged frenzy over it but I certainly feel anger and don't think the man deserves any help at all. Why waste time and money psychoanalysing and trying to rehabilitate him? I know it's a slippery slope but it's one I'd be willing to risk it in a case like this. His rights are of no concern to me.

See, what does that mean?

My reaction to this was visceral too, but I find it difficult to get angry at I mindset I can't even get my head around. I'm not sure it's easy to say someone is mentally ill. I think it's much easier to cling to the spectres of 'evil' rather than confront the reality that there are people who seem normal, just like us, in every respect, but have urges so far removed from what we can even comprehend.

Most importantly, no one is suggesting anything other than he be locked up so that he can't do it again, whether it not it is his 'fault'.

[Hoboh]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

They have no place in society so why not do away with them, Paedophiles I mean but then again, I could stretch this to the uncureable, dangerous mentally ill.
We pity too many who would fail to show us any, until we learn the world will always be a dangerous place.

Not half as dangerous as planet hoboh - where they execute people for being ill... Nice to see hoboh had to 'stretch' a bit to get to this point... He's all heart really... Just won't let it rule his head...

And... What must it be like to be inside hoboh's head? All these execution fantasies, day after day... Not healthy if you ask me...

I’ll bite.
If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?
An armed police officer confronts terrorists throwing grenades into a crowd, should he shoot?
The country faces invasion by an aggressive neighbour, do you despatch soldiers to shoot and repel them?
All the above would be acts carried out to protect society, so tell me, what the difference between them is and carrying out capital punishment to protect the public from people who are statistically more than likely to re-offend and commit gross crimes again.
I won’t go down the religious route to killing given that according to the book even God was not without his WMD when he was protecting parts of society.
My head is fine I just tire of perpetrators being given more ‘victim’ status than actual victims.

[thebish]

I’ll bite.
If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot?

it'd be a bit harsh on them - given they had already been attacked with a machete - to shoot at them too!

[Hoboh]

I’ll bite.
If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot?

it'd be a bit harsh on them - given they had already been attacked with a machete - to shoot at them too!

[Prufrock]

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

They have no place in society so why not do away with them, Paedophiles I mean but then again, I could stretch this to the uncureable, dangerous mentally ill.
We pity too many who would fail to show us any, until we learn the world will always be a dangerous place.

Not half as dangerous as planet hoboh - where they execute people for being ill... Nice to see hoboh had to 'stretch' a bit to get to this point... He's all heart really... Just won't let it rule his head...

And... What must it be like to be inside hoboh's head? All these execution fantasies, day after day... Not healthy if you ask me...

I’ll bite.
If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?
An armed police officer confronts terrorists throwing grenades into a crowd, should he shoot?
The country faces invasion by an aggressive neighbour, do you despatch soldiers to shoot and repel them?
All the above would be acts carried out to protect society, so tell me, what the difference between them is and carrying out capital punishment to protect the public from people who are statistically more than likely to re-offend and commit gross crimes again.I won’t go down the religious route to killing given that according to the book even God was not without his WMD when he was protecting parts of society.
My head is fine I just tire of perpetrators being given more ‘victim’ status than actual victims.

Seriously?

How about, in your examples there isn't the example of 'them being in jail' instead ??

[Prufrock]

Problem so complex... solution so evasive... hoboh so simple...

The natural order of things confirmed...

I find it really hard to get 'angry' about stuff like this. Stunned, certainly, but it's beyond my understanding.

At the root of it I think most crimes are about selfishness. I get angry about people who steal, who drink-drive, who are violent, and I think the root of this anger is that I've had the same motivations those people have, but haven't acted on them. They thought the rules didn't apply to them because they were more important.

This kind of thing isn't like that. I can't even get my head around what was going in in their minds.

To be honest, Pru, I have never felt motivated to steal or become violent (and never have), but in the past I have certainly driven after a drink or two (and likely over the limit). Sorry if this makes you angry, though I'm sure many people of my generation have also done so. Fortunately I have never had an accident involving alcohol. Nowadays I have a wife who drinks little so she does the driving after parties. People who molest children are driven by urges most of us cannot comprehend because, as you say, it is not a matter of rules. It is in our very nature to want to protect children and let them have a happy childhood. Yet there are always outliers whose natures are very different and are, by our standards, mentally ill. People who are mentally ill can, one hopes, be cured although this may be unlikely in the case of paedophiles. I think we should get upset that these things go on, but getting angry solves nothing.

You must seen something you wanted but couldn't have, or become angry at someone and wanted to hurt them in some way (and clearly wanted to get home without the inconvenience of not driving) though? I get the impulses people give in to with those crimes. This is just off the scale of my comprehension though.

[Hoboh]

I’ll bite.
If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?
An armed police officer confronts terrorists throwing grenades into a crowd, should he shoot?
The country faces invasion by an aggressive neighbour, do you despatch soldiers to shoot and repel them?
All the above would be acts carried out to protect society, so tell me, what the difference between them is and carrying out capital punishment to protect the public from people who are statistically more than likely to re-offend and commit gross crimes again.I won’t go down the religious route to killing given that according to the book even God was not without his WMD when he was protecting parts of society.
My head is fine I just tire of perpetrators being given more ‘victim’ status than actual victims.

Seriously?

How about, in your examples there isn't the example of 'them being in jail' instead ??[/quote]

The answer is simple.
Can anyone guarantee these people will spend eternity locked up? Or will as the case as been in the past some Doctor, Psychiatrist or institutions such as the ECHR manufacture their release?
In this world run by bleeding heart liberals I would not rule anything out!
No matter which way you squirm the chances of blood on your hands are there.

[thebish]

If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?

ok hobes... I need a bit more information

question one (given that I am surrounded by women and children and the elderly and infirm) - am I a good shot?

(I'll leave out the question - why do I have a loaded gun!)

[William the White]

If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?

ok hobes... I need a bit more information

question one (given that I am surrounded by women and children and the elderly and infirm) - am I a good shot?

(I'll leave out the question - why do I have a loaded gun!)

You are. but you've left your glasses at home. Nevertheless you are surrounded by pensioners women and toddlers, some of whom are missing limbs, who are imploring you to take out the madman. Are you going to kill or be a dangerous liberal and offer counselling?

[thebish]

if i'd left my glasses at home - then I'd not be able to see a thing - and I'd be as likely to shoot an old lady and/or a child - which would look bad and probably get me sent down as an accomplice... so - I think I wouldn't...

[Hoboh]

If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?

ok hobes... I need a bit more information

question one (given that I am surrounded by women and children and the elderly and infirm) - am I a good shot?

(I'll leave out the question - why do I have a loaded gun!)

Naughty boy, you know it was a hypothetical situation to make a point, do people actually live by their beliefs and conscience, or is reality a completely different ball game?

[Bruce Rioja]

if i'd left my glasses at home - then I'd not be able to see a thing - and I'd be as likely to shoot an old lady and/or a child - which would look bad and probably get me sent down as an accomplice... so - I think I wouldn't...

You could always give them a rendition of The Quartermaster's Store though.

[thebish]

If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?

ok hobes... I need a bit more information

question one (given that I am surrounded by women and children and the elderly and infirm) - am I a good shot?

(I'll leave out the question - why do I have a loaded gun!)

Naughty boy, you know it was a hypothetical situation to make a point, do people actually live by their beliefs and conscience, or is reality a completely different ball game?

i think it is reasonable to ask a question as you are painting a scenario and asking me to choose.

am i a good shot?

[Hoboh]

If you were in a public place surrounded by woman and children, the elderly and infirm, a man appears armed with a machete runs amok slashing indiscriminately, you had a loaded gun, would you shoot him?

ok hobes... I need a bit more information

question one (given that I am surrounded by women and children and the elderly and infirm) - am I a good shot?

(I'll leave out the question - why do I have a loaded gun!)

You are. but you've left your glasses at home. Nevertheless you are surrounded by pensioners women and toddlers, some of whom are missing limbs, who are imploring you to take out the madman. Are you going to kill or be a dangerous liberal and offer counselling?

'Afternoon William.
I supose you could talk him to death.