Today I'm angry about.....

[thebish]

^ my question is MORE about what people think they are saying in this secular world when they describe someone as "evil"...

[LeverEnd]

Delicate stuff, but needs huge care or any extreme lawbreaker can claim it.

This is exactly what I mean Bobo.

And thebish, people have their own definition of what it means. It's a word I certainly hesitate to use.

[Bijou Bob]

Only caught a few seconds of it on the news, but the two lunatics who ran the soldier over then attacked him with a meat cleaver and knives almost removing his head, are pleading not guilty to his murder?

Of course! You don't think for a minute that the barristers would let them plead guilty and lose out on a multi million pound pay day from the legal aid fund do you?! Caught red handed on video from several angles, the whole trial is a complete sham, but its their right to plead not guilty don't you know.

Same thing with recent high profile cases and most murderers. Bent lawyers lining their pockets on the state. Some are no better than their clients.

[Prufrock]

My mind boggles at what people thinks goes on in the law. Where do people get this nonsense?! Is be flabbergasted beyond words if they wanted to plead guilty and the lawyers were saying the opposite.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I assume they are pleading not guilty to a charge of murder. They presumably do not deny they killed the soldier but are claiming it is not murder, but an act of war in their jihad and therefore a lawful killing. They also presumably want a soapbox on which to proclaim their crackpot ideas so need a trial which a guilty plea would not give them. Of course the lawful killing defense will not work. I would hold the trial in camera to get rid of the soapbox too but that's just me.

[Lord Kangana]

Really? Thats extremely naive if you think like that Pru.

I've seen, in no particular order, solicitor's refuse to hand back monies that were illegally obtained to fight a case, and separately, someone be advised of having an exceedingly good case to get them on the hook and get their business, several (extremely expensive) letters, emails, phonecalls and meetings later being advised to cave in, as actually, on reflection the evidence was worthless. Bear in mind this was during amicable negotiations that would have seen the client significantly better off. Not now, significantly worse off.

I've also experienced first hand a solicitor offering to deal with French Law on my behalf, only to discover that their knowledge stretched as far as google would let it.

As I say, you're displaying naivety in the extreme to not see them like any other trade. They will take the line of least resistance to make money.

[Prufrock]

I've no doubt there are dodgy folk sending letters they shouldn't be. In fact I know it. But: firstly, the people who are in law to rinse cash don't do criminal. Secondly, the people who would do that wouldn't be doing it in a trial of this magnitude. Thirdly, controversially, they wouldn't be barristers.

The idea that those guys have said they want to plead guilty but been talked out of it by their lawyers is beyond belief.

[bobo the clown]

I've no doubt there are dodgy folk sending letters they shouldn't be. In fact I know it. But: firstly, the people who are in law to rinse cash don't do criminal. Secondly, the people who would do that wouldn't be doing it in a trial of this magnitude. Thirdly, controversially, they wouldn't be barristers.

The idea that those guys have said they want to plead guilty but been talked out of it by their lawyers is beyond belief.

So it's not feasible that someone who thinks he's' bang to rights' gets told by his lawyers that there may be some viable defence, however inventive and us therefore persuaded to give "not guilty" a go ?

That is "beyond belief" ??

You need to be more creative in your thinking Pru.

[Prufrock]

If he tells them he's bang to rights, yes, I think it almost impossible his barrister would advise him to plead not guilty. They aren't allowed to, really not allowed to, and it's far too small a profession for it happen on anything remotely nearing a regular basis, and certainly not in a trial of this magnitude.

[LeverEnd]

I assume they are pleading not guilty to a charge of murder. They presumably do not deny they killed the soldier but are claiming it is not murder, but an act of war in their jihad and therefore a lawful killing. They also presumably want a soapbox on which to proclaim their crackpot ideas so need a trial which a guilty plea would not give them. Of course the lawful killing defense will not work. I would hold the trial in camera to get rid of the soapbox too but that's just me.

Agree 100% on the motivation for the not-guilty plea. A barrister is there to represent and advise, not to tell them what to do. They will advise the best course for their client based on common sense, which is irrelevant to these fanatics.
Also agree with Monty on denying them publicity.
Really I think it's just a shame that the police bullets weren't fatal, would make things a lot simpler.

[thebish]

deep sympathy and prayers from me for all those personally affected by this helicopter crash - I mean that...

however..

two things made me cross this morning..

1) a small thing - but irritating none the less - the ludicrous mangling of our language. At the press conference, the police spokesman began by saying "the thoughts of myself are with all the families..." WTF is wrong with "my thoughts" or "our thoughts"?? this ludicrous and stupid insistence on using "myself" exclusively instead of any construction including the words "I", "me", "my" or "mine" has to be stopped...


2) more deeply... this whole idea that whenever there is a major incident the police have a duty to spend time telling the press all about it by means of a huge press conference - even when it is too early to say anything. It leads to the utterly ludicrous spectacle of massed ranks of senior police officers and local dignitaries (all scrambling to get their faces on the news) lined up - making banal statements about thoughts being with the families and how this particular community (presumably unlike others?) has such great strength and because of that will pull together and survive etc... mixed in with dozens of banal platitudes - and then a question session where there is no information to be given at all.

it seems to me that we have allowed ourselves to think that the 24hr news agenda just HAS to be fed - and it saddens me to see that the police (whose time could surely be put to better use?) seemingly HAVE to play along with the whole charade.

today it led to the sickening sound of Alec Salmond blathering on about it being St David's day so they should be proud scots - as if that means the square root of chuffing-feck on a day like this - for the families who are grieving or at their wits end with anxiety for a loved one who is seriously wounded or missing.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Andrew Bish

But yes, I agree..

[Bijou Bob]

Sadly Bish, thanks to Leveson, we know what happens to individuals and organisations who fail to meet the demands of the media.

And Pru, with all due respect, I've seen many a solicitor give ddodgy advice to a client in order to get a green card signed. It's only months ago that a barrister in the Leveson enquiry started an affair with his opposite number and I've had personal dealings with cases where barristers have been paying their clients a retainer in order to keep their business. It's a dirty world out there.

[Hoboh]

Sadly Bish, thanks to Leveson, we know what happens to individuals and organisations who fail to meet the demands of the media.

And Pru, with all due respect, I've seen many a solicitor give ddodgy advice to a client in order to get a green card signed. It's only months ago that a barrister in the Leveson enquiry started an affair with his opposite number and I've had personal dealings with cases where barristers have been paying their clients a retainer in order to keep their business. It's a dirty world out there.

I agree, needs a good dose of hoboh n harpic the new professionals.

[LeverEnd]

Sadly Bish, thanks to Leveson, we know what happens to individuals and organisations who fail to meet the demands of the media.

And Pru, with all due respect, I've seen many a solicitor give ddodgy advice to a client in order to get a green card signed. It's only months ago that a barrister in the Leveson enquiry started an affair with his opposite number and I've had personal dealings with cases where barristers have been paying their clients a retainer in order to keep their business. It's a dirty world out there.

I agree, needs a good dose of hoboh n harpic the new professionals.

And that would purify it?

[Hoboh]

Sadly Bish, thanks to Leveson, we know what happens to individuals and organisations who fail to meet the demands of the media.

And Pru, with all due respect, I've seen many a solicitor give ddodgy advice to a client in order to get a green card signed. It's only months ago that a barrister in the Leveson enquiry started an affair with his opposite number and I've had personal dealings with cases where barristers have been paying their clients a retainer in order to keep their business. It's a dirty world out there.

I agree, needs a good dose of hoboh n harpic the new professionals.

And that would purify it?

The use of selective quoting or highlighting on these boards is becoming shocking!

[LeverEnd]

Just a simple STD joke, trying to drag down the serious debate with a bit of light-hearted puerile innuendo Hoboh. Nothing political.

Disclaimer: I don't really think Hoboh has a dose!

[Hoboh]

I know I was waiting your reply before posting,

[Harry Genshaw]

Racist numpties on FB.

This weekend I've seen 2 posts on friends statuses by friends of theirs, using language from the 1960s. I've always known there are people stupid enough to judge folk by the colour of their skin, but that they share it with the rest of the world .

More annoying though, in both cases, folk continued to post comments on these statuses with no reference to the racist comments further up

[Worthy4England]

All these fecking adverts for people who you might hear of if you lived in the same house, promoting their Christmas album of carols n stuff. Give it a feckin rest.