The Great Art Debate

[Bruce Rioja]

Went to the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam last year, have to say, I didn't really get what the fuss was about.

You and me both, Beefheart. Full of folk with their chins on their thumbs too, which never helps.

[Beefheart]

Went to the Van Gogh museum in Amsterdam last year, have to say, I didn't really get what the fuss was about.

You and me both, Beefheart. Full of folk with their chins on their thumbs too, which never helps.

And the hands held behind their back and leaning forward to get a good look folk too.

Still, nothing as bad as the bag of sand in the Pompidou centre. It's art that is.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Proper snobs! Why should oil be different to watercolour. Where does acrylic come in, is that middle class art?
In this order of snobbery only western paintings are paintings - all Chinese, Japanese, Mughal, and Neanderthal paintings are to be dismissed as not proper...

Ha - what on earth has 'snobbery' got to do with it?!

Ok, ok, I will retract the 'not proper paintings' line. I don't like the sterile debates in which people express their distaste for golf by saying it's 'not a sport', or claim that certain art isn't art at all... so I am a bit ashamed of my trolling.

Watercolour paintings are, obviously and by definition, paintings!

Chinese paintings fascinate me. I have been to the current exhibition at the V&A twice now and will be going back soon with the Chinese TV channel I have started to work with. The continuity in 1200 years of Chinese painting is a visual record of cultural identity without parallel anywhere in the world and I find them profoundly beautiful and humbling. Part of the fascination though, I will admit, is that nobody seems to have a had a crack at proper painting in all that time.

Sorry!

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Windmill in Zandaam by Claude Monet. Watercolour.

Are you sure that is by Monet?

Doesn't look like it to me.

But then, I have never seen a Monet watercolour, so it is hard to tell.

[TANGODANCER]

You're forgiven Mummy.
One of the prime reasons for watercolour's lack of popularity was initially because of its fragility. Pigments faded and its shelf life was limited compared to other mediums like oils etc. Modern materials have come a long way since. I agree entirely about the fascination with oriental art, some of it is magnificent. Not just Chinese, but Japanese too. Painting and composing and writing poetry were parts of the life of a Samurai warrior.

Bolton library has a massive amount of books on art and artists and I'm currently reading Watercolour Tips and Techniques a book by four different artists that explains quite a lot about the art in general.

[Bruce Rioja]

Windmill in Zandaam by Claude Monet. Watercolour.

Are you sure that is by Monet?

Doesn't look like it to me.

But then, I have never seen a Monet watercolour, so it is hard to tell.

Is that not just someone's bobbins crack at this?

[TANGODANCER]

Are you sure that is by Monet?

Doesn't look like it to me.

But then, I have never seen a Monet watercolour, so it is hard to tell.

Here you go.......I can only show what I found. http://www.superstock.com/stock-photos-images/463-4858" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

Windmill in Zandaam by Claude Monet. Watercolour.

Are you sure that is by Monet?

Doesn't look like it to me.

But then, I have never seen a Monet watercolour, so it is hard to tell.

Is that not just someone's bobbins crack at this?

as i suggested earlier - i think this is probably the watercolour sketch he did in preparation for the oil....

[Bruce Rioja]

Completely unrelated, but I stay in Zaandam quite often. In this. 4uckers are on drugs, I tell you.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

as i suggested earlier - i think this is probably the watercolour sketch he did in preparation for the oil....

I really don't think so. The tone is all wrong and I have never heard of him making watercolour sketches (unlike Van Gogh, who I know did do this).

[TANGODANCER]

as i suggested earlier - i think this is probably the watercolour sketch he did in preparation for the oil....

I really don't think. The tone is all wrong and I have never heard of him making watercolour sketches (unlike Van Gogh, who I know did do this).

Actually, market value apart (because we'll never afford either) if it came to a choice I'd sooner have the framed watercolour print on my wall than a print of the oil, which I find a bit drab. Just a personal choice.

[thebish]

as i suggested earlier - i think this is probably the watercolour sketch he did in preparation for the oil....

I really don't think so. The tone is all wrong and I have never heard of him making watercolour sketches (unlike Van Gogh, who I know did do this).

I'm just taking Tango's word for it that it is actually by Monet. If Tango is right - then that's my most reasonable explanation!

if Tango is wrong - then Bruce's explanation comes into play - it's a watercolour version by someone else of Monet's oil painting...

[TANGODANCER]

as i suggested earlier - i think this is probably the watercolour sketch he did in preparation for the oil....

I really don't think so. The tone is all wrong and I have never heard of him making watercolour sketches (unlike Van Gogh, who I know did do this).

I'm just taking Tango's word for it that it is actually by Monet. If Tango is right - then that's my most reasonable explanation!

if Tango is wrong - then Bruce's explanation comes into play - it's a watercolour version by someone else of Monet's oil painting...

I really have no idea one way or the other. A search for Monet watercolours threw it up after reading somewhere about the number of artists who had painted in the medium.

[thebish]

oh... I thought you were presenting it as an example of a Monet watercolour...

[jaffka]

Can anyone recommend websites for purchasing prints and canvases?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Can anyone recommend websites for purchasing prints and canvases?

A friend of mine says this site is good. http://www.art.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[thebish]

Completely unrelated, but I stay in Zaandam quite often. In this. 4uckers are on drugs, I tell you.

that's sheer bonkers!!

[TANGODANCER]

I found this interesting on the topic of oil/watercolour mediums.

http://impossiblekisses.blogspot.co.uk/ ... nking.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Proper snobs! Why should oil be different to watercolour. Where does acrylic come in, is that middle class art?
In this order of snobbery only western paintings are paintings - all Chinese, Japanese, Mughal, and Neanderthal paintings are to be dismissed as not proper...

Ha - what on earth has 'snobbery' got to do with it?!

Ok, ok, I will retract the 'not proper paintings' line. I don't like the sterile debates in which people express their distaste for golf by saying it's 'not a sport', or claim that certain art isn't art at all... so I am a bit ashamed of my trolling.

Watercolour paintings are, obviously and by definition, paintings!

Chinese paintings fascinate me. I have been to the current exhibition at the V&A twice now and will be going back soon with the Chinese TV channel I have started to work with. The continuity in 1200 years of Chinese painting is a visual record of cultural identity without parallel anywhere in the world and I find them profoundly beautiful and humbling. Part of the fascination though, I will admit, is that nobody seems to have a had a crack at proper painting in all that time.

Sorry!

Very good.

I find the Japanese tradition more interesting than the Chinese*
Hokusai - although known in the west for his woodcuts - did proper paintings (at least in my opinion)
And interestingly, the PRB, impressionists, Turner, and Modernists in the west were all heavily influenced by Japanese art.

* for three reasons
1 I lived in Japan and not in China
2 the Japanese had a real continuity of culture - the Chinese, from our perspective might look to be a continuum, but they aren't. They're not even one people and certainly never been a continuous culture.
3 Japanese art has 'soul' whereas Chinese is technical.

[thebish]

^ another of those modern politically correct people trying to persuade us that chinese and japanese are different things...