Name some names then.

[StaffsTrotter]

Wheater was Coyle, and technically so was Spearing.[/quote]
Dougie paid money for one of them and gave a new contract to the other. They are Dougie's players.[/quote]


Ahhhh, I see. Out of interest are there any Megson signings still in the squad? Mavies and Knight spring to mind.[/quote]

Holden[/quote] ????[/quote]

My recall was that megson went down the recruitment route of making us more young and english as a team, after Sams older league of nations approach, on the pretext of the premium on english players and potential re-sale.

Sad in some ways that the PL is where the money is and given what its become there is little interest in english players

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Strong words from Freedman. Arguably too strong, but then if he'd come out with the great-bunch-of-lads platitudes he'd have been derided for that too. S'pose that's what happens when results are terrible.

He'll have to name names on Saturday - 11 of them in the starting line-up. I'm intrigued as to who they'll be. I suspect they may not include Ngog.

[Lord Kangana]

The guy who saved him from the unwanted record of worst result in our history?

Hardly rewarding them, is he?

[bobo the clown]

Strong words from Freedman. Arguably too strong, but then if he'd come out with the great-bunch-of-lads platitudes he'd have been derided for that too. S'pose that's what happens when results are terrible.

He'll have to name names on Saturday - 11 of them in the starting line-up. I'm intrigued as to who they'll be. I suspect they may not include Ngog.

... b ... b .... b ... but our strikers were all about to be given cast iron 90 minutes of football for the next 6 games !!

You aren't suggesting he'll not follow-through on his word, shirley ??

[jaffka]

Strong words from Freedman. Arguably too strong, but then if he'd come out with the great-bunch-of-lads platitudes he'd have been derided for that too. S'pose that's what happens when results are terrible.

He'll have to name names on Saturday - 11 of them in the starting line-up. I'm intrigued as to who they'll be. I suspect they may not include Ngog.

... b ... b .... b ... but our strikers were all about to be given cast iron 90 minutes of football for the next 6 games !!

You aren't suggesting he'll not follow-through on his word, shirley ??

His words backfire again. The man is a fool.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The guy who saved him from the unwanted record of worst result in our history?

Heh - like Ngog knew anything about that...

DF didn't seem too outwardly bothered about our worst-ever start. "Water off a duck's back", as a predecessor said?

As for the 90-minutes quote, that's the latest in a long line of foot-in-mouth gaffes. Shush, Doug.

[bobo the clown]

The guy who saved him from the unwanted record of worst result in our history?

Heh - like Ngog knew anything about that...

DF didn't seem too outwardly bothered about our worst-ever start. "Water off a duck's back", as a predecessor said?

As for the 90-minutes quote, that's the latest in a long line of foot-in-mouth gaffes. Shush, Doug.

I don't want to hang him for a one-off soft remark. But they come out every time he opens his gob.

The players will have noticed this, for sure.

[Worthy4England]

I agree with one thing. I don't think this squad is good enough either.

I look at the team that went up in 1997

Branagan
Fairclough
Taggart
Bergsson
Philips
Sellars
Frandsen
Johansen
Thompson
Mcginlay
Blake

It would shit all over this set of wasters

As would the team that went up in 2001

Jussi
Elliot
Bergsson
Hendry
O'Kane (most of the time)
Farrelly
Fransden
Ricardo
Nolan
Ricketts
Holdsworth

I don't think there's a single one of the current squad where I'd say "fcuk me, "x" has left, that's us well and truely screwed"

There are probably a couple where I'm still uncertain - Moritz for example.

This isn't an "excuse" for Freedman, think I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough either.

[BWFC_Insane]

I agree with one thing. I don't think this squad is good enough either.

I look at the team that went up in 1997

Branagan
Fairclough
Taggart
Bergsson
Philips
Sellars
Frandsen
Johansen
Thompson
Mcginlay
Blake

It would shit all over this set of wasters

As would the team that went up in 2001

Jussi
Elliot
Bergsson
Hendry
O'Kane (most of the time)
Farrelly
Fransden
Ricardo
Nolan
Ricketts
Holdsworth

I don't think there's a single one of the current squad where I'd say "fcuk me, "x" has left, that's us well and truely screwed"

There are probably a couple where I'm still uncertain - Moritz for example.

Yep, I'd agree with this. Further, is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"? As in they mightn't be the best but you appreciate their effort, or whatever?

I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...Is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"?
I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

I like Bogdan because a) he's ginger and we need to Kick Gingerism Out and b) he's Hungarian which is close enough to being Romanian and I'd quite like to invite hordes of Romanians over and c) his name's Adam (which I can pronounce) Bogdan (which I can take the piss out of). Three splendid reasons to feel affection for him.

[BWFC_Insane]

...Is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"?
I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

I like Bogdan because a) he's ginger and we need to Kick Gingerism Out and b) he's Hungarian which is close enough to being Romanian and I'd quite like to invite hordes of Romanians over and c) his name's Adam (which I can pronounce) Bogdan (which I can take the piss out of). Three splendid reasons to feel affection for him.

Which is fine till he has to come and catch a cross.......he's no Jesus that boy....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...Is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"?
I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

I like Bogdan because a) he's ginger and we need to Kick Gingerism Out and b) he's Hungarian which is close enough to being Romanian and I'd quite like to invite hordes of Romanians over and c) his name's Adam (which I can pronounce) Bogdan (which I can take the piss out of). Three splendid reasons to feel affection for him.

Which is fine till he has to come and catch a cross.......he's no Jesus that boy....

You had to remind me of his failings didn't you?

[SmokinFrazier]

Freedman's cowardly burial of his players is pathetic. This same nucleus almost managed to stay in the Premier League when Coyle was our manager, which I'm pretty sure wouldn't have happened if they were League One quality. Our players have been let down by awful managers since Allardyce, though Megson, shockingly, is the best we've had since then.

Still, I'm sure Freedman's phone will be ringing non-stop after that endorsement.

[Prufrock]

You can cut the smug know-it-all bollocks . Given you watch a lot of football, you'll have spotted goals 2 and three came from us playing your high line. Admittedly the third has pressure on the ball, though it is from the wrong team.

Now internetoneupmanship aside, did you have the misfortune to go on Saturday SF? I'm guessing you didn't simply because you cannot think those players are good enough if you did. No-one could get that side promoted. That doesn't excuse Freedman in the slightest. He signed a lot of them, and picked others over his own players, but it doesn't make them not shite either.

Knight and N'Gog are far far far from the worst players we've ever had if it's purely footballing ability, but they're the worst I've ever seen as footballers as a whole of those who've played a decent number of games.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

This same nucleus almost managed to stay in the Premier League

Hmm... by the same token as before, I had a quick check. Players with 15 or more league starts in 2011/12:
37 Reo-Coker
30 Petrov
29 MDavies
26 Eagles
24 Ngog
24 Wheater
21 KDavies
21 Knight
20 Bogdan
20 Ricketts
20 Steinsson
19 Cahill
18 Jaaskelainen
18 Muamba
16 Klasnic
15 Robinson

Quite a few players still about. But quite a few gone, too.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

(...)you cannot think those players are good enough if you did. No-one could get that side promoted. That doesn't excuse Freedman in the slightest. He signed a lot of them, and picked others over his own players, but it doesn't make them not shite either.

Knight and N'Gog are far far far from the worst players we've ever had if it's purely footballing ability, but they're the worst I've ever seen as footballers as a whole of those who've played a decent number of games.

I do like to read a post with both balance and gallows humour.

[Worthy4England]

Yep, I'd agree with this. Further, is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"? As in they mightn't be the best but you appreciate their effort, or whatever?

I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

Few and far between.

Danns, I think has worked hard (and pretty effectively) so far, but then again, so did Spearing last season.

The attack has been fairly toothless. Beckford probably just about the "pick" but nowt to get too excited about.

MF - CYL not shown much, little end product. Whatever Eagles may have had, has gone missing. Medo's hit n miss, Spearing's just been miss.

The defence has improved marginally from a very low baseline. We've let 42 goals in.

Lonergan has helped keep that number below 50.

[Worthy4England]

This same nucleus almost managed to stay in the Premier League

Hmm... by the same token as before, I had a quick check. Players with 15 or more league starts in 2011/12:
37 Reo-Coker
30 Petrov
29 MDavies
26 Eagles
24 Ngog
24 Wheater
21 KDavies
21 Knight
20 Bogdan
20 Ricketts
20 Steinsson
19 Cahill
18 Jaaskelainen
18 Muamba
16 Klasnic
15 Robinson

Quite a few players still about. But quite a few gone, too.

Of the ones that are left, there's a few, that wouldn't have got into a Bolton team, two/three years earlier. Not by a long chalk, Bogdan, Wheater, N'gog and probably Eagles spring to mind - can't count Knight, because he did and he was...

[danardif1]

I agree with one thing. I don't think this squad is good enough either.

I look at the team that went up in 1997

Branagan
Fairclough
Taggart
Bergsson
Philips
Sellars
Frandsen
Johansen
Thompson
Mcginlay
Blake

It would shit all over this set of wasters

As would the team that went up in 2001

Jussi
Elliot
Bergsson
Hendry
O'Kane (most of the time)
Farrelly
Fransden
Ricardo
Nolan
Ricketts
Holdsworth

I don't think there's a single one of the current squad where I'd say "fcuk me, "x" has left, that's us well and truely screwed"

There are probably a couple where I'm still uncertain - Moritz for example.

This isn't an "excuse" for Freedman, think I've seen enough to say he isn't good enough either.

That was an excellent side... strikers that scored regular goals, a midfield with pace and quality, and a back line that was organised and strong.

Can't comment too much on the 97 team as I was only 8 and not massively into football at the time.

Compare Deano to N'Gog for example... he might not have been the best player, but Holdsworth was FAR ahead of anything our current £4m striker has ever served up, and back then we had Ricketts banging in goals left right and centre as well. There was an element of depth that we struggle with now and have done for years.

What we've done wrong in the transfer market in recent years is buy 'experienced' Premier League cast-offs, and now it just looks like each and every club had been laughing all the way to the bank, because they were being sold for a reason. You look at the better Championship clubs and what they do is look round the current division and lower for players who are proving themselves properly. I'll keep using N'Gog as an example as he's probably the best one in this case... he couldn't score goals for a good Liverpool side (with Gerrard, Xabi Alonso, Maxi Rodriguez, Dirk Kuyt all there to feed him), so how in hell was he going to in a poorer team? An opposite example is the hat-trick hero from last weekend's game... Adam Le Fondre has spent his whole career scoring bucket loads of goals at all levels, but would never be on our radar because he wasn't at a better club than us. There's a level where clubs have to stop bottom-feeding and become the big club scooping up players from lower leagues, and we're well past that. Think of practically all the best Championship clubs and that's what they do... yet we don't, and we'll keep missing the Le Fondre/Lambert/Holt players (aka Michael Ricketts back in the day) because the club has a misguided view of recruiting players.

EDIT: And I just want to add that's not luck how these clubs sometimes get these goal machines, it's bleeding obvious because the goal figures don't lie. How did Burnley manage to cope with losing Charlie Austin? They had Danny Ings... that's the difference.

[LeverEnd]

Also worth noting that Deano was himself an overpriced Premier League cast-off and it's widely rumoured that Wimbledon were literally laughing at Todd and us over that one. The difference is that a decent manager came in when we got Sam and he got the best out of him and motivated him in a way that Freedman can only dream of.
We need to look for that kind of manager aagain and if it makes us a sacking club, so be it.