The Debt.

[ChrisC]

Do people really think that putting 50+ million into a dying club every year is sustainable for someone who has a value of about 100M?

That's where your argument falls down. He wont be putting 50+ million into the club each year. We are working on bringing down our outgoings and investing in new business's and projects to help fund the club for years to come. For the next few years we have to speculate to accumulate. Things will get worse before they get better but at least we have a plan.

So your solution to us getting into debt is to... get into more debt? How many years of investing 50+ million into the club do you think we can take? 1? 2? 3?

The debt itself isn't the issue. It's the fact we're getting into more and more debt that is the bigger problem and your plan of spending more money and getting into even more debt on the hope that we'll some how start making more money than we're spending is... sorry to be rude... moronic.

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

[Mar]

Do people really think that putting 50+ million into a dying club every year is sustainable for someone who has a value of about 100M?

That's where your argument falls down. He wont be putting 50+ million into the club each year. We are working on bringing down our outgoings and investing in new business's and projects to help fund the club for years to come. For the next few years we have to speculate to accumulate. Things will get worse before they get better but at least we have a plan.

So your solution to us getting into debt is to... get into more debt? How many years of investing 50+ million into the club do you think we can take? 1? 2? 3?

The debt itself isn't the issue. It's the fact we're getting into more and more debt that is the bigger problem and your plan of spending more money and getting into even more debt on the hope that we'll some how start making more money than we're spending is... sorry to be rude... moronic.

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

They both sound pretty moronic to be fair. Past problems have got us into this mess.

[BWFC_Insane]

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Though to be fair "invest" sounds like we are putting more money into something than we were before. Which I suspect may not be the case.

We may be spending less overall and a greater percentage of our now reduced expenditure is on younger players and the academy but to be fair, I'm not sure that is "investment" in entirely the sense you meant it........

[ChrisC]

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Though to be fair "invest" sounds like we are putting more money into something than we were before. Which I suspect may not be the case.

We may be spending less overall and a greater percentage of our now reduced expenditure is on younger players and the academy but to be fair, I'm not sure that is "investment" in entirely the sense you meant it........

I mean things like the hotel and the new Middlebrook re-development etc..

[bobo the clown]

Are there even 50m of cuts that we can make though? And we have to remember even cutting our spending by 50m doesn't actually mean we're paying off the debt! I would dare say that the amount of savings that can be made right now would be eclipsed by any interest on said debt.

We aren't paying any interest on the debt.

Last year we made a loss of £50M.

That needs to be cut to less than £8M next season in order to comply with FFP.

So essentially we need to "Lose" £42M less to avoid that penalty. That of course does not change the debt position.

What is this 'Penalty'? does anybody (including whoever it is that's going to impose this penalty) know what the penalty comprises exactly?

It is a transfer ban with a possible fine as well (though I think the fine is only for clubs who have deliberately overspent).

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/fina ... lained.php

It's as floppy and imprecise as you may have imagined ... for Championship clubs who overspend their income by over £8m. then from January 2015 there will be a transfer embargo.

There's some flaky flim-flam about fines and "tax" and some detail about how a loss is made up. Wages and purchases count, fixed asset costs and spending on infrastructure, academies etc. do not.

I have no idea how this will play out in practice but it's certainly not as simple as Mr Macawber's arithmetic on income and expenditure. Nor are penalties clear. You'd not have to be too hot on the nature of legal rights to say you cannot be punished for something which wasn't clear and the penalties were not obvious.

[BWFC_Insane]

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Though to be fair "invest" sounds like we are putting more money into something than we were before. Which I suspect may not be the case.

We may be spending less overall and a greater percentage of our now reduced expenditure is on younger players and the academy but to be fair, I'm not sure that is "investment" in entirely the sense you meant it........

I mean things like the hotel and the new Middlebrook re-development etc..

Oh right...well I don't think the hotel is an "investment". De Veres wanted out for a while from what I've been told. And as we own it we essentially hadn't got much choice but to run it.

The Middlebrook plans are odd IMO, I would defer to an expert for what advantage they might provide. Again I'm unsure if they really relate to an investment "by and for" the football club but we'll see.

[bobo the clown]

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Though to be fair "invest" sounds like we are putting more money into something than we were before. Which I suspect may not be the case.

We may be spending less overall and a greater percentage of our now reduced expenditure is on younger players and the academy but to be fair, I'm not sure that is "investment" in entirely the sense you meant it........

I mean things like the hotel and the new Middlebrook re-development etc..

Oh right...well I don't think the hotel is an "investment". De Veres wanted out for a while from what I've been told. And as we own it we essentially hadn't got much choice but to run it.

The Middlebrook plans are odd IMO, I would defer to an expert for what advantage they might provide. Again I'm unsure if they really relate to an investment "by and for" the football club but we'll see.

The hotel etc. would count as infrastructure, I'd expect ... & so, as shown above, not be part of the footballing debt.

[BWFC_Insane]

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Though to be fair "invest" sounds like we are putting more money into something than we were before. Which I suspect may not be the case.

We may be spending less overall and a greater percentage of our now reduced expenditure is on younger players and the academy but to be fair, I'm not sure that is "investment" in entirely the sense you meant it........

I mean things like the hotel and the new Middlebrook re-development etc..

Oh right...well I don't think the hotel is an "investment". De Veres wanted out for a while from what I've been told. And as we own it we essentially hadn't got much choice but to run it.

The Middlebrook plans are odd IMO, I would defer to an expert for what advantage they might provide. Again I'm unsure if they really relate to an investment "by and for" the football club but we'll see.

The hotel etc. would count as infrastructure, I'd expect ... & so, as shown above, not be part of the footballing debt.

Quite but I don't think we've spent anything on it, merely taken over the running of it. It was ours in the first place.

It makes a loss though......

[Izual_Rebirth]

Do people really think that putting 50+ million into a dying club every year is sustainable for someone who has a value of about 100M?

That's where your argument falls down. He wont be putting 50+ million into the club each year. We are working on bringing down our outgoings and investing in new business's and projects to help fund the club for years to come. For the next few years we have to speculate to accumulate. Things will get worse before they get better but at least we have a plan.

So your solution to us getting into debt is to... get into more debt? How many years of investing 50+ million into the club do you think we can take? 1? 2? 3?

The debt itself isn't the issue. It's the fact we're getting into more and more debt that is the bigger problem and your plan of spending more money and getting into even more debt on the hope that we'll some how start making more money than we're spending is... sorry to be rude... moronic.

Its not my solution.. its the clubs. I haven't dreamed it up. This is what is actually happening.

Your personal solution would be to kill the club by going into administration. The club is trying to invest in our future to keep us where we are now but with a healthier financial situation.

Which sounds the more moronic?

Perhaps I've missed something but how are we "investing" anything? The only thing that would help us would be getting promoted to the prem but does anyone see that happening when we lose a lot of our players at the end of the season? Hell if we manage to stay in the league this season do people really think we wll avoid it next year having let go our big names?

[bobo the clown]

Is your honest "solution" to go into Administration ?

[Worthy4England]

Hell if we manage to stay in the league this season do people really think we wll avoid it next year having let go our big names?

Breaking News alert - We don't have any big names.

It's like the tallest dwarf.

[Lord Kangana]

Would a ten point penalty not be levied for entering administration?

I know we're trying our hardest to do it anyway, but that would almost certainly guarantee relegation.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I know I'm trying to catch up on a hugely large number of threads which are red, and so I don't have the full researched reading experience on this particular thread. But. Is someone seriously saying the answer to our problems is to enter Administration? Seriously?

[thebish]

I know I'm trying to catch up on a hugely large number of threads which are red, and so I don't have the full researched reading experience on this particular thread. But. Is someone seriously saying the answer to our problems is to enter Administration? Seriously?

no - I don't think anyone actually has - unless i missed it somewhere in the small-print...

[Lord Kangana]

Because we're going to be forced to at some point. Might as well get it out of the way now.

I would suggest this to be less than subtle bish. Feel free to interpret it differently though.

[thebish]

Because we're going to be forced to at some point. Might as well get it out of the way now.

I would suggest this to be less than subtle bish. Feel free to interpret it differently though.

ahh - fair enough - must have skipped over that page! heaven knows why!!

[bobo the clown]

I know a couple of people who, having driven up huge personal debt, went into personal bankruptcy and more or less wrote off their debts. It meant fckg up their credit rating, but also putting any assets they had out of their control. In the cases I know there was lawyer supported fancy-footwork with house ownership and car etc.

It was quite a craze 6 or 7 years ago. In fact it's hard, and dubious and all too often the person seems to rebuild the debt in due course.

I think some simple-thinking people see this as an option for a football blub. We've seen Leeds, Leicester, Derby, Bristol City and many others do this over the years. Well ... first of all the FA/FL etc. have made that harder to do. It also means your assets get raided and you get bottom book for what you have.

We can't do this and keep Euxton, the ground, the offices, the hotel, the Middlebrook assets. The money raised goes to the creditors, players, taxman.

I tried to point this out, above, and yet it's not going in.

Further, people owed money after assets are sold only get x in the £. So local Painters and Decorators, News Vendors, Carpet Companies, Cleaners etc., etc. all get thoroughly ripped off.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, in consequence I declare the person who seriously suggested this as a solution to be...wait for it...a knob. (I'm not putting the boot in Bruce, but come on get with me on this!).

[Lord Kangana]

I know a couple of people who, having driven up huge personal debt, went into personal bankruptcy and more or less wrote off their debts. It meant fckg up their credit rating, but also putting any assets they had out of their control. In the cases I know there was lawyer supported fancy-footwork with house ownership and car etc.

It was quite a craze 6 or 7 years ago. In fact it's hard, and dubious and all too often the person seems to rebuild the debt in due course.

I think some simple-thinking people see this as an option for a football blub. We've seen Leeds, Leicester, Derby, Bristol City and many others do this over the years. Well ... first of all the FA/FL etc. have made that harder to do. It also means your assets get raided and you get bottom book for what you have.

We can't do this and keep Euxton, the ground, the offices, the hotel, the Middlebrook assets. The money raised goes to the creditors, players, taxman.

I tried to point this out, above, and yet it's not going in.

Further, people owed money after assets are sold only get x in the £. So local Painters and Decorators, News Vendors, Carpet Companies, Cleaners etc., etc. all get thoroughly ripped off.

Apart from all that, any downsides we should be aware of at all?

[Bruce Rioja]

Further, people owed money after assets are sold only get x in the £. So local Painters and Decorators, News Vendors, Carpet Companies, Cleaners etc., etc. all get thoroughly ripped off.

Indeed - I remember reading how when Portsmouth first went bust, whilst the multi-millionaire footballer Sol Campbell was digging his heels in over £1m worth of image rights, the newsagent that supplied the club's papers was owed about £4K. The c*nts.