Name some names then.

[Gary the Enfield]

Also worth noting that Deano was himself an overpriced Premier League cast-off and it's widely rumoured that Wimbledon were literally laughing at Todd and us over that one. The difference is that a decent manager came in when we got Sam and he got the best out of him and motivated him in a way that Freedman can only dream of.
We need to look for that kind of manager aagain and if it makes us a sacking club, so be it.

Scored the winner at home v. Liverpool to send us top of the league (briefly)

fecked up an open goal opportunity at Wembley in the FA cup semi v. Aston Villa

He's football Marmite that man.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yep, I'd agree with this. Further, is there actually a player we've got who you're "fond of"? As in they mightn't be the best but you appreciate their effort, or whatever?

I can't help but feel little affection for the majority of the players we have to suffer through watching at the minute.

Few and far between.

Danns, I think has worked hard (and pretty effectively) so far, but then again, so did Spearing last season.

The attack has been fairly toothless. Beckford probably just about the "pick" but nowt to get too excited about.

MF - CYL not shown much, little end product. Whatever Eagles may have had, has gone missing. Medo's hit n miss, Spearing's just been miss.

The defence has improved marginally from a very low baseline. We've let 42 goals in.

Lonergan has helped keep that number below 50.

Aye Danns. I like him so far. He seems like an honest player, not great ability, but makes the most of what he has.

But as you say it is early days with him.

I quite like Mark Davies but clearly needs to fully recover.

After that I'm stumped.

[Lord Kangana]

Mears is a better fullback then O'kane ever was. Most of those players are being viewed with a good dose of hindsight. A decent manager could organise this team and motivate it to promotion. Its a big fat load of bollox and yet another dougie excuse that he cant. He's stuck with these players, if he cant sort them out after 16 months he should resign and let someone else try.

[BWFC_Insane]

Mears is a better fullback then O'kane ever was. Most of those players are being viewed with a good dose of hindsight. A decent manager could organise this team and motivate it to promotion. Its a big fat load of bollox and yet another dougie excuse that he cant. He's stuck with these players, if he cant sort them out after 16 months he should resign and let someone else try.

In your opinion.

However, there are lots of decent managers out there not touching any of our players, who are all readily available. In my opinion any new manager would want to change half the squad as soon as they could.

[LeverEnd]

Also worth noting that Deano was himself an overpriced Premier League cast-off and it's widely rumoured that Wimbledon were literally laughing at Todd and us over that one. The difference is that a decent manager came in when we got Sam and he got the best out of him and motivated him in a way that Freedman can only dream of.
We need to look for that kind of manager aagain and if it makes us a sacking club, so be it.

Scored the winner at home v. Liverpool to send us top of the league (briefly)

fecked up an open goal opportunity at Wembley in the FA cup semi v. Aston Villa

He's football Marmite that man.

I likes the guy, but I don't think there's any doubt he was overpriced and past his best when we got him. It's a testament to Big Sam's skills that he did so well for us. Then again I'm not suggesting Sam could do that for Ngog. Deano had a heart.

[BWFC_Insane]

Also worth noting that Deano was himself an overpriced Premier League cast-off and it's widely rumoured that Wimbledon were literally laughing at Todd and us over that one. The difference is that a decent manager came in when we got Sam and he got the best out of him and motivated him in a way that Freedman can only dream of.
We need to look for that kind of manager aagain and if it makes us a sacking club, so be it.

Scored the winner at home v. Liverpool to send us top of the league (briefly)

fecked up an open goal opportunity at Wembley in the FA cup semi v. Aston Villa

He's football Marmite that man.

I likes the guy, but I don't think there's any doubt he was overpriced and past his best when we got him. It's a testament to Big Sam's skills that he did so well for us. The again I'm suggesting Sam could do that for Ngog. Deano had a heart.

Holdsworth had scored a good number of premiership goals. And played a good number of games. Contrast that with NGog's record prior to being here......

[LeverEnd]

My point is that good managers can work with struggling players and make something of them. Freedman does the opposite.

[BWFC_Insane]

My point is that good managers can work with struggling players and make something of them. Freedman does the opposite.

Holdsworth was struggling agreed. But we knew he could score goals and perform at the premiership level.

NGog has done neither with any regularity anywhere. So is he struggling or simply not very good?

West Ham have many struggling players, why hasn't Sam "made something of them"?

[jaffka]

My point is that good managers can work with struggling players and make something of them. Freedman does the opposite.

Holdsworth was struggling agreed. But we knew he could score goals and perform at the premiership level.

NGog has done neither with any regularity anywhere. So is he struggling or simply not very good?

West Ham have many struggling players, why hasn't Sam "made something of them"?

What the f**k are you going on about?

Do you think duggie is getting the most out of the players?

[LeverEnd]

My point is that good managers can work with struggling players and make something of them. Freedman does the opposite.

Holdsworth was struggling agreed. But we knew he could score goals and perform at the premiership level.

NGog has done neither with any regularity anywhere. So is he struggling or simply not very good?

West Ham have many struggling players, why hasn't Sam "made something of them"?

I also said Ngog was a lost cause. He's one I'd never blame Freedman for. He's a gutless waster who is stealing a living.
I think Sam is losing his touch also. I'm just sick of Freedman making out only the players are to blame and hinting that none of it is his fault.

[BWFC_Insane]

My point is that good managers can work with struggling players and make something of them. Freedman does the opposite.

Holdsworth was struggling agreed. But we knew he could score goals and perform at the premiership level.

NGog has done neither with any regularity anywhere. So is he struggling or simply not very good?

West Ham have many struggling players, why hasn't Sam "made something of them"?

I also said Ngog was a lost cause. He's one I'd never blame Freedman for. He's a gutless waster who is stealing a living.
I think Sam is losing his touch also. I'm just sick of Freedman making out only the players are to blame and hinting that none of it is his fault.

The problem is you used Holdsworth (a striker who was in your words "an overpriced premiership cast off"). The most obvious comparison in our squad being NGog.

And you have to concede that no manager could do any better with NGog, or at least it seems that way.

Sordell has failed here under Coyle, Freedman and since at Charlton under Powell. So perhaps no manager could do any better with him.

Knight has been generally poor here under Megson, Coyle and Freedman. So perhaps no manager could do any better with him.

The trend is there. If you have too many of these players you end up where we are.

I think my point is changing manager won't change anything as it stands. The players are the problem.

One might say that Freedman's lack of experience hasn't helped in some regards and his judgement on purchases is also questionable. And I can't argue with that.

But we can't buy and largely are stuck with this situation whatever happens. So we simply have to not like it, but lump it for now as there is no magic saviour, no magician, no fantastical way out in the short term.

[jaffka]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

[Bruce Rioja]

Holdsworth had scored a good number of premiership goals. And played a good number of games. Contrast that with NGog's record prior to being here......

Didn't Ngog hold the record for goals scored v minutes on the pitch when he was at Liverpool? Admittedly, this was only because he used to come on when they were already 2 up with 5 minutes to go. Still, it was enough to fool Coyle.

[BWFC_Insane]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

[jaffka]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

However the next manager is.

That's obvious.

[BWFC_Insane]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

However the next manager is.

That's obvious.

What if he can't get any better out of them than the last two? How many managers do we end up going through?

[CrazyHorse]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

Anyone but Coyle.

[jaffka]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

However the next manager is.

That's obvious.

What if he can't get any better out of them than the last two? How many managers do we end up going through?

As many as it takes, but you are being ridiculous. How long is a piece of string?

Do you think Duggie is getting the best out of these players?

[BWFC_Insane]

That's just rubbish.

The right person in can motivate players, that isn't happening with the chancer we have.

Who is the right person?

However the next manager is.

That's obvious.

What if he can't get any better out of them than the last two? How many managers do we end up going through?

As many as it takes, but you are being ridiculous. How long is a piece of string?

Do you think Duggie is getting the best out of these players?

But what if the key to success turns out to be building a stable solid foundation of younger players and being patient whilst that comes to fruition, rather than changing a manager every year if they cannot achieve promotion with a dwindling set of talent?

Lets be clear, I'm asking a question. I'm not saying stick with anybody. But I'm very much struggling to see a short term way out of our problems. So a longer term view is required. I don't know if Freedman is the right person to implement that, and I'm certainly not suggesting he is. I'm merely stating that I don't believe changing manager would lead to the promotion people seem to think it would. Especially as undoubtedly we are going to be working with an even smaller budget next year.

Different opinion.

[Prufrock]

No manager could get that shower promoted. Other managers might have done more about bit by now, but they lack the basic mental abilities required to be consistently successful. The worst thing about Saturday was how passive and accepting it all was.