Giant Killing on the Cards? (Cardiff Thread)

[bobo the clown]

He slags them off. He shouldn't be doing that it'll ruin their confidence. He says they played ok, he's watching a different game.

He can't win (geddit).

You're correct ... & that may seem unfair. He can't do right for doing wrong. However, the reason for that is, frankly, almost no-one believes in him any longer.

In that case we come back to a few other threads, the crux of which are ... why's he still here ?

The ONLY way to turn this round is to get some wins, but he's been making excuses since September. I have little faith (OK, I have none, but let me hedge my bets just a bit) that he's capable of doing that. Talk of luck, or patience or injuries, or a couple of new players, or lack of confidence, or what great things are going on behind the scenes .... it all counts for fck all when we've won 2 home league games since April last year.

[Prufrock]

Oh I don't disagree.

Slag him off for the results and the performances, not for his comments about them.

Too many amateur Freuds.

[bobo the clown]

Oh I don't disagree.

Slag him off for the results and the performances, not for his comments about them.

Too many amateur Freuds.

Though, to be fair, I'm a professional ... with qualifications and everything !!

[jaffka]

Oh I don't disagree.

Slag him off for the results and the performances, not for his comments about them.

Too many amateur Freuds.

If the team serve up obvious shite and then he tries to tell you it's was good, he deserves his comments being ripped to pieces.

[Worthy4England]

we didn't play that badly - in terms of the basics - but we totally lacked any threat/punch/sting/inventiveness/spark... we had no ideas/creativity/pace/guile... we just never looked like we'd score - i was watching the crowd - not once did a single bolton fan anywhere stand up with anticipation!

You could have written exactly the same about a large amount of games this season.

Other than the odd aberration, you could write most of our match reports prior to kick off.

We do seem to be constantly lowering the bar on what "not too bad" is...

[jaffka]

we didn't play that badly - in terms of the basics - but we totally lacked any threat/punch/sting/inventiveness/spark... we had no ideas/creativity/pace/guile... we just never looked like we'd score - i was watching the crowd - not once did a single bolton fan anywhere stand up with anticipation!

You could have written exactly the same about a large amount of games this season.

Other than the odd aberration, you could write most of our match reports prior to kick off.

We do seem to be constantly lowering the bar on what "not too bad" is...

It's not wee Duggie's fault though...

[thebish]

The apathy & acceptance of mediocrity amongst some supporters is as damaging to the club as Freedman is.

really??? how so?

[jaffka]

The apathy & acceptance of mediocrity amongst some supporters is as damaging to the club as Freedman is.

really??? how so?

I think your report supports what he said.

[SmokinFrazier]

The apathy & acceptance of mediocrity amongst some supporters is as damaging to the club as Freedman is.

really??? how so?

Had more pressure been on Gartside to appoint a quality manager after Allardyce, we likely wouldn't have got Lee who had no sort of experience. Had we demanded a the right choice after Lee, and we were in a good position to bring in a well respected manager back then, maybe we'd have got someone better than Megson? Bolton fans accepted mediocrity and got it. Had we been heavily protesting for Coyle's sacking before we got relegated rather than making excuses for him, maybe he would have gone before the drop to the Championship before it was too late? If we continue to make excuses, maybe Freedman will get us relegated and in a years time, we'll be regretting not doing more to voice our concerns about the way the club was run this season. Nobody actually defends Freedman as a manager and yet they still want him to keep his job which is remarkable. Will it take another relegation before the 50% of fans on this forum who think Freedman should stay realise what a shockingly bad manager he is and finally demand change?

Sadly, PT is right, our fans do accept mediocrity and that's why even after a 7-1 thrashing and the worst start to the season in decades, I had little hope that things would change. Regardless of the quality of our infrastructure and players, we have a small club mentality and some of our fans accept far less than what we're capable of. Maybe we'll get what we deserve again?

[Seamus' good leg]

First time for a while for me & the lad - fortunately with waterproofs but not with thermals. Thoroughly uninspiring throughout.
One of the things I've shared with him (to soften the blow of our demise of our relegation from the Premiership) was how great it was to take on the "bigger teams" in the the various cups, and take a game to them. This was nothing like - totally devoid of balls & urgency. As a result sadly our crowd wasn't up to much either. (Compare this with Sheffield United currently taking on & beating Fulham with 10 men).
I didn't mind being "plucky little Bolton', but we're even devoid of "pluck" @ the moment.
Sad times.

[bobo the clown]

^^ I understand all of the above SF, but where in any of that do the fans "have a say" ? How were we to "demand more of a say" ?

It's fine & dandy to say that Lee wasn't up to it, no-one can argue with that now, some of us may have thought it at the time but was it inherently wrong ? ... & even if it was how do fans get a say in this. It's not a democracy.

There was plenty of negative about Megson. Plenty. However that negativity was the real beginning of our demise. He was the wrong choice, but compared with what followed looks like a master-stroke.

[officer_dibble]

Lee was the biggest mistake. Big Sam leaving at the end of that season was the perfect opportunity to get a new man in before the pre season. Once LSL had fecked it there was still an opportunity as a premiership team with a decent squad and european football to get a proper manager in. Megson did what he had to and kept us up but even then it was obvious it wasnt going to be long term. Gartsides really fecked it up in the last 7 years. Coyle is the only appointment I cant criticise as it was my choice at the time. What he can be criticised for is not sacking him before he fecked it up. We should never have gone doen.

[officer_dibble]

Oh, and happy with my decision not to go. Sub 13k on. Probably what we'll average next season assuming we stay up?

[StaffsTrotter]

^^ I understand all of the above SF, but where in any of that do the fans "have a say" ? How were we to "demand more of a say" ?

It's fine & dandy to say that Lee wasn't up to it, no-one can argue with that now, some of us may have thought it at the time but was it inherently wrong ? ... & even if it was how do fans get a say in this. It's not a democracy.

There was plenty of negative about Megson. Plenty. However that negativity was the real beginning of our demise. He was the wrong choice, but compared with what followed looks like a master-stroke.

Completely right that fans have no real say in those kind of decisions, its simply a case of being pleased or not about what is decided and seeing what happens.

The only real place to influence things is at the match. Sure if you turn up, you have the choice to either cheer, remain silent or boo. As noted on previous threads my fear is apathy and people simply not turning up. I can only remember 2 real cases of widespread fan discontent at a game and both ended in sackings - McFarland and megson.

As has been noted this current chap seems remarkably fireproof with the fans (btw not sure what % of people off here actually regularly attend ?) despite his record and the performances so far, which I guess is more to do with concern on the finances and stability issues, rather than any lights at the end of tunnel. I am truly fearful he is taking us down, but I'm sure some on here will tell us that its what we need.

[Bruce Rioja]

Had more pressure been on Gartside to appoint a quality manager after Allardyce, we likely wouldn't have got Lee who had no sort of experience. Had we demanded a the right choice after Lee, and we were in a good position to bring in a well respected manager back then, maybe we'd have got someone better than Megson? Bolton fans accepted mediocrity and got it.

Not sure it had anything at all to do with Bolton fans accepting mediocrity - many made their opinions on Megson's both signing physically and vocally.

I think I've shared this story before, can't be sure, but it'll do no harm to give it another run-out. Just after Allardyce had failed to land the England job one of my mates was at some or other celebration dinner in Manchester for Sir Alex Ferguson (was a work thing, he's not a DMB or owt, he's a Brummie). The table next to his was that of Bolton Wanderers and sat at it, amongst others, were Mr & Mrs Gartside and Mr & Mrs Allardyce. Apparently BSA had a face like thunder and appeared to be in poor form (and proceeded to get absolutely battered). My mate asked Mrs Allardyce what was wrong with him and she told him that Sam was absolutely gutted not to get the England job, which, he thought, he'd absolutely nailed.

Later on my mate got talking to Garty, whom he described as being an obnoxious prick by the way. He asked Garty if he'd any idea who he'd have wanted to bring in had Sam got the England job to which Gatry instantaneously replied 'Gary Megson'. When asked why? he simply said 'because I like his style of management'.

I'm not sure how the timing of this exchange coincides with Sammy Lee being brought in as BSA's right hand man, and clearly his intended successor, but it's always left me with the thought that Lee wasn't Gartside's appointment at all, and that he basically had him foisted upon on him, presumably by ED, before winning the argument to bring his own man in.

Highlight of the evening though was apparently guest MC David Threlfall in full Frank Gallagher character who repeatedly, and much to Ferguson's increasing annoyance, kept referring to him as 'Tommy Doc'

[BWFC_Insane]

The apathy & acceptance of mediocrity amongst some supporters is as damaging to the club as Freedman is.

really??? how so?

Had more pressure been on Gartside to appoint a quality manager after Allardyce, we likely wouldn't have got Lee who had no sort of experience. Had we demanded a the right choice after Lee, and we were in a good position to bring in a well respected manager back then, maybe we'd have got someone better than Megson? Bolton fans accepted mediocrity and got it. Had we been heavily protesting for Coyle's sacking before we got relegated rather than making excuses for him, maybe he would have gone before the drop to the Championship before it was too late? If we continue to make excuses, maybe Freedman will get us relegated and in a years time, we'll be regretting not doing more to voice our concerns about the way the club was run this season. Nobody actually defends Freedman as a manager and yet they still want him to keep his job which is remarkable. Will it take another relegation before the 50% of fans on this forum who think Freedman should stay realise what a shockingly bad manager he is and finally demand change?

Sadly, PT is right, our fans do accept mediocrity and that's why even after a 7-1 thrashing and the worst start to the season in decades, I had little hope that things would change. Regardless of the quality of our infrastructure and players, we have a small club mentality and some of our fans accept far less than what we're capable of. Maybe we'll get what we deserve again?

Sorry but that is just rubbish. Fans were singing for Megson to be potted and for Coyle to come in.

The club did just that. But where the feck did it get us? A bigger mess.

It is frustrating to me that we waited to be relegated and more to remove Coyle because the damage is and will be long lasting and I think at the time plenty could see that. But even if fans had pitched up with burning bed sheets and pitchforks it doesn't change that Eddie can essentially do what he likes, and will no matter how noisy people get.

[thebish]

Had more pressure been on Gartside to appoint a quality manager after Allardyce,

i'm struggling to grasp this - how do fans put pressure on gartside to "appoint a quality manager"?? do they chant at every game "appoint a quality manager"?? what - in actual practical terms are you suggesting fans should have done differently and how would it have guaranteed a quality manager?? Are you suggesting that because fans didn't do whatever it was you think they should have done - that Gartside breathed a sigh of relief and said - "OK - phew - I'll go and find a shoite manager."???

[BWFC_Insane]

Had more pressure been on Gartside to appoint a quality manager after Allardyce,

i'm struggling to grasp this - how do fans put pressure on gartside to "appoint a quality manager"?? do they chant at every game "appoint a quality manager"?? what - in actual practical terms are you suggesting fans should have done differently and how would it have guaranteed a quality manager?? Are you suggesting that because fans didn't do whatever it was you think they should have done - that Gartside breathed a sigh of relief and said - "OK - phew - I'll go and find a shoite manager."???

I suspect you chant for a name, if club doesn't appoint that name then 'booooooo'.

If they do and said manager isn't as great as expected then 'boooo gartside doesn't know what he's doing why won't he listen to us?'

[bobo the clown]

If we all recall properly Sammy Lee was keen to be a manager in his own right. When we brought him in he ws made #2 with a promise that #1 was his if it became available. I believe that was an error, but that's what he was told.

When it did come available the club kept it's promise.

Now, if that promise was clearly bllx they
a). Ought not have made it
b). Should, maybe, have reneged on it, whatever.

But it wasn't clearly bllx ... AT THE TIME.

It didn't take long to accept that it wasn't a good decision.

That was the BIG mistake. Had we gone into that summer with a vacancy, our past 4 or 5 league finishes, European football achieved again etc., etc. we could have been a very attractive proposition.

I did always see Megson as the best of a bad bunch given the situation into we'd put ourselves. It's disappointing to read Bruce's story that we were destined to get him no-matter what, if the vacancy re-arose.

[Worthy4England]

The appointment of Lee wasn't that strange to me, but that was on the "blind assumption" that it had been the Club's intention for continuity for a couple of years. But Lee didn't go for continuity, he went out a grabbed half a dozen lightweight, "flair" players.

The Megson appointment was a strange one and never resonated with the fans. And if I recall at the time Megson's ex agent Mark Curtis, ran the process (which is why Souness withdrew). So it sorta sounded like a fait accompli. In the event, it probably ran about the right length of time.

Coyle was a bigger punt to me than Megson (although from this fan's perspective, a welcome one) and clearly ran too long. He was sacked 12 months too late.

Freedman was the biggest punt of the lot. And it's clearly not working.