Freedman out!

[bobo the clown]

Bottom line people will say it didn't "work" but all depends how you view it.

They've got this new-fangled thing called The League Table. Its quite an unimaginative title, and its not all-encompassing, for example, it can't measure how much work one does behind the scenes, but its still a fairly decent indicator of how well things "work". You should try it.

So you're saying you always judge a manager purely on results and league position?

Is winning 2 home league games between April and February a reasonable guide though ?

[jaffka]

Bottom line people will say it didn't "work" but all depends how you view it.

They've got this new-fangled thing called The League Table. Its quite an unimaginative title, and its not all-encompassing, for example, it can't measure how much work one does behind the scenes, but its still a fairly decent indicator of how well things "work". You should try it.

So you're saying you always judge a manager purely on results and league position?

By all means kid yourself that everything is great but don't expect others to stick their heads in the sand with you.

[SmokinFrazier]

Our league position would be excusable if we didn't have a team capable of so much more but as it is, it's an entirely accurate representation of how poor we've been. Sometimes teams are unlucky and results can be deceptive but that isn't the case for us, we're getting what we deserve for being so poor.

[Hoboh]

Bottom line people will say it didn't "work" but all depends how you view it.

They've got this new-fangled thing called The League Table. Its quite an unimaginative title, and its not all-encompassing, for example, it can't measure how much work one does behind the scenes, but its still a fairly decent indicator of how well things "work". You should try it.

So you're saying you always judge a manager purely on results and league position?

Oh FFS what else is there to justify his existance or pay then? How nice the painting on the dressingroom wall is, or how well kept the grass?

[gavlat2872]

Our league position would be excusable if we didn't have a team capable of so much more but as it is, it's an entirely accurate representation of how poor we've been. Sometimes teams are unlucky and results can be deceptive but that isn't the case for us, we're getting what we deserve for being so poor.

i used to think this, however i genuinely think that players are as much to blame as DF.

There isn't one player at this club that would be an instant starter in any prem team, and id go as far as to say the majority of championship teams would have our current crop as bench warmers.

we've been in decline for years now, and tbh, with DF at the helm and the players at his disposal its a very very dark time. We're stuck with him whether we like it or not, this season is a write off apart from the possible relegation battle, im looking forward to the start of next season, DF last chance saloon, he gets to get the high earners out and bring in some players that are "made of the right stuff" then see how it pans out

[Lord Kangana]

If blame is to be apportioned proportionally, then surely it still indicates some element of blame is attached to both parties. Doesn't it?

[jaffka]

Our league position would be excusable if we didn't have a team capable of so much more but as it is, it's an entirely accurate representation of how poor we've been. Sometimes teams are unlucky and results can be deceptive but that isn't the case for us, we're getting what we deserve for being so poor.

i used to think this, however i genuinely think that players are as much to blame as DF.

There isn't one player at this club that would be an instant starter in any prem team, and id go as far as to say the majority of championship teams would have our current crop as bench warmers.

we've been in decline for years now, and tbh, with DF at the helm and the players at his disposal its a very very dark time. We're stuck with him whether we like it or not, this season is a write off apart from the possible relegation battle, im looking forward to the start of next season, DF last chance saloon, he gets to get the high earners out and bring in some players that are "made of the right stuff" then see how it pans out

We don't need to worry about not having any premier league quality starters as we are in the championship. That's the point, our players are doing crap in the championship, guided by Duggie clueless chancer.

[gavlat2872]

Our league position would be excusable if we didn't have a team capable of so much more but as it is, it's an entirely accurate representation of how poor we've been. Sometimes teams are unlucky and results can be deceptive but that isn't the case for us, we're getting what we deserve for being so poor.

i used to think this, however i genuinely think that players are as much to blame as DF.

There isn't one player at this club that would be an instant starter in any prem team, and id go as far as to say the majority of championship teams would have our current crop as bench warmers.

we've been in decline for years now, and tbh, with DF at the helm and the players at his disposal its a very very dark time. We're stuck with him whether we like it or not, this season is a write off apart from the possible relegation battle, im looking forward to the start of next season, DF last chance saloon, he gets to get the high earners out and bring in some players that are "made of the right stuff" then see how it pans out

We don't need to worry about not having any premier league quality starters as we are in the championship. That's the point, our players are doing crap in the championship, guided by Duggie clueless chancer.

Thats what i was trying to get at, but went off on a bit of a tangent. Long story short, our players are turbo gash thundercnuts

[thebish]

Without going over the same debate as previously, its not a court of law, we are merely spouting opinions. We are all only seeing bits of information and joining the dots to make a picture. The more info from more sources the better the picture, although anyone could still see a different picture. I'm all for the 1001 ways to skin a cat adage, but at the end of the day the real measure is on the pitch and in the league table.

indeed - the measure is what happens on the pitch - fully agree. so - this Iles story is not (as someone said) "the last straw". your way of joining up the dots might be entirely correct, I'm just minded (in this case) to join up the dots in a different way and come to a different conclusion - such is the dazzlingy wondrous variety of life! my crayon joins the dots and reveals a picture of ordinary journalistic license... your pencil joins them and finds conclusive evidence of Dougie being a bag of wank... some might say we join the dots in such a way as to find the picture we most want to see, but I couln't possibly comment!

[boltonboris]

Bottom line people will say it didn't "work" but all depends how you view it.

They've got this new-fangled thing called The League Table. Its quite an unimaginative title, and its not all-encompassing, for example, it can't measure how much work one does behind the scenes, but its still a fairly decent indicator of how well things "work". You should try it.

So you're saying you always judge a manager purely on results and league position?

I do. Not sure what other parameters are more important than results in football?

[thebish]

c'mon lads... we've already sorted this out once... net spend is the crucial measure..

[Lord Kangana]

I think its a bit trite to suggest its only results Boris. I think in order of importance, you'd probably list the top ten things a manager needs to be judged on as:


1) Results
2) Results
3) Results
4) Results
5) Results
6) Results
7) Results
Results
9) Results
10) All the other stuff that goes along with being a manager, that you'd be expected to achieve in the normal course of any other job as a bare minimum. Say for example, turning up to work when you're meant to.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Without going over the same debate as previously, its not a court of law, we are merely spouting opinions. We are all only seeing bits of information and joining the dots to make a picture. The more info from more sources the better the picture, although anyone could still see a different picture. I'm all for the 1001 ways to skin a cat adage, but at the end of the day the real measure is on the pitch and in the league table.

indeed - the measure is what happens on the pitch - fully agree. so - this Iles story is not (as someone said) "the last straw". your way of joining up the dots might be entirely correct, I'm just minded (in this case) to join up the dots in a different way and come to a different conclusion - such is the dazzlingy wondrous variety of life! my crayon joins the dots and reveals a picture of ordinary journalistic license... your pencil joins them and finds conclusive evidence of Dougie being a bag of wank... some might say we join the dots in such a way as to find the picture we most want to see, but I couln't possibly comment!

This is akin to the arrow scandal. I have no dots. I demand dots.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I think its a bit trite to suggest its only results Boris. I think in order of importance, you'd probably list the top ten things a manager needs to be judged on as:


1) Results
2) Results
3) Results
4) Results
5) Results
6) Results
7) Results
Results
9) Results
10) All the other stuff that goes along with being a manager, that you'd be expected to achieve in the normal course of any other job as a bare minimum. Say for example, turning up to work when you're meant to.

wrong:
this is it
1) Results
2) League Position
3) Results
4) Results
5) Results
6) Results
7) Results
Results
9) Results
10) All the other stuff that goes along with being a manager, that you'd be expected to achieve in the normal course of any other job as a bare minimum. Say for example, turning up to work when you're meant to

[Lord Kangana]

I stand corrected.

[Lord Kangana]

To be honest, I'm just waiting for BWFCi or the bish to flag up some post from about 4 years where I said it wasn't. There's a feeling of crushing inevitability about it.

[thebish]

we are where we are... bottom line is we're never going to get anywhere if we expect instant results, and some people need to give their heads a collective shake. We have less money now, we have less pulling power, we have less of a lot of things. Blame Coyle if you wish, it was that way regardless, but its no use expecting miracles from Dougie. He'll probably have to do it the Allardyce way, and grind us out of the division.

[jaffka]

we are where we are... bottom line is we're never going to get anywhere if we expect instant results, and some people need to give their heads a collective shake. We have less money now, we have less pulling power, we have less of a lot of things. Blame Coyle if you wish, it was that way regardless, but its no use expecting miracles from Dougie. He'll probably have to do it the Allardyce way, and grind us out of the division.

I agree that he will grind us into div 1

[Lord Kangana]

we are where we are... bottom line is we're never going to get anywhere if we expect instant results, and some people need to give their heads a collective shake. We have less money now, we have less pulling power, we have less of a lot of things. Blame Coyle if you wish, it was that way regardless, but its no use expecting miracles from Dougie. He'll probably have to do it the Allardyce way, and grind us out of the division.

I'm not sure I meant downwards.

I'd also suggest that 17 months later, and lower in the table, is not in any way "instant". Sammy Lee was here for 1/3rd that time. Its now more than 1/2 of Megson.

[Worthy4England]

I think its a bit trite to suggest its only results Boris. I think in order of importance, you'd probably list the top ten things a manager needs to be judged on as:


1) Results
2) Results
3) Results
4) Results
5) Results
6) Results
7) Results
Results
9) Results
10) All the other stuff that goes along with being a manager, that you'd be expected to achieve in the normal course of any other job as a bare minimum. Say for example, turning up to work when you're meant to.

wrong:
this is it
1) Results
2) League Position
3) Results
4) Results
5) Results
6) Results
7) Results
Results
9) Results
10) All the other stuff that goes along with being a manager, that you'd be expected to achieve in the normal course of any other job as a bare minimum. Say for example, turning up to work when you're meant to

That's no good - there's only one set of results we're smiling at there. The rest must be shoite.