Holden on to nothing?

[Lord Kangana]

Two years ago, not two weeks ago.

[BWFC_Insane]

Two years ago, not two weeks ago.

My post from 2011 when Holden broke down in his comeback game...

The club have let Holden down big time!! Not happy!!

I'm not so sure they have. Depends what the original injury was. Once players get serious knee problems the setbacks and reoccurrences are quite common. It's different than with broken bones or whatever, diagnosis and determining when they are ok to resume top level football is not cut and dried. I suspect this problem only flared up once he started playing. Before that it will have looked ok on the scans and felt ok!

Clearly my tone is totally different.....oh......

[jaffka]

I just fail to see that a person can have all that 'work', all that attention, all that preparation and he break down after 25 minutes. There has to be some lack of attention there.

No surgeon will guarantee 100% success on complicated surgery. Probably not on straight forward surgery either.

I'm pretty sure that purely on a functioning role it would be fine. He is a top end athlete though and there is far more strain and pressure on muscles and joints, any weakness will of course be highlighted and at risk.

Which, Shirley to God, would have been spotted in assessment and, if not, then in training if it broke down within 25 minutes, without notable contact.

Training isn't just jogging about ... is it ??


However, the bottom line is that is wasn't spotted. I just find that amazing.

I think you are over reacting here.

No training scenario can ever truly replicate a match situation. You know that though.

Much of what will have happened will be down to Holden, he is the one who wants to give it a go and believes that he is over the injury.

[jaffka]

Two years ago, not two weeks ago.

My post from 2011 when Holden broke down in his comeback game...

The club have let Holden down big time!! Not happy!!

I'm not so sure they have. Depends what the original injury was. Once players get serious knee problems the setbacks and reoccurrences are quite common. It's different than with broken bones or whatever, diagnosis and determining when they are ok to resume top level football is not cut and dried. I suspect this problem only flared up once he started playing. Before that it will have looked ok on the scans and felt ok!

Clearly my tone is totally different.....oh......

are you going to dig the cancer comment up whilst your trawling frantically trying to score internet points?

[Prufrock]

Two years ago, not two weeks ago.

My post from 2011 when Holden broke down in his comeback game...

The club have let Holden down big time!! Not happy!!

I'm not so sure they have. Depends what the original injury was. Once players get serious knee problems the setbacks and reoccurrences are quite common. It's different than with broken bones or whatever, diagnosis and determining when they are ok to resume top level football is not cut and dried. I suspect this problem only flared up once he started playing. Before that it will have looked ok on the scans and felt ok!

Clearly my tone is totally different.....oh......

touché!

[Lord Kangana]

If I hadn't been replying to A1, it would have been absolutely brilliant.

[bobo the clown]

I just fail to see that a person can have all that 'work', all that attention, all that preparation and he break down after 25 minutes. There has to be some lack of attention there.

No surgeon will guarantee 100% success on complicated surgery. Probably not on straight forward surgery either.

I'm pretty sure that purely on a functioning role it would be fine. He is a top end athlete though and there is far more strain and pressure on muscles and joints, any weakness will of course be highlighted and at risk.

Which, Shirley to God, would have been spotted in assessment and, if not, then in training if it broke down within 25 minutes, without notable contact.

Training isn't just jogging about ... is it ??

However, the bottom line is that is wasn't spotted. I just find that amazing.

How can you 'spot' that a ligament will go in a certain situation?

So, you're satisfied that playing him last night was wise are you ?

OK ... I give up.

It was as unavoidable and unpredictable as someone turning an ankle. There .... happy with that ?

[BWFC_Insane]

I just fail to see that a person can have all that 'work', all that attention, all that preparation and he break down after 25 minutes. There has to be some lack of attention there.

No surgeon will guarantee 100% success on complicated surgery. Probably not on straight forward surgery either.

I'm pretty sure that purely on a functioning role it would be fine. He is a top end athlete though and there is far more strain and pressure on muscles and joints, any weakness will of course be highlighted and at risk.

Which, Shirley to God, would have been spotted in assessment and, if not, then in training if it broke down within 25 minutes, without notable contact.

Training isn't just jogging about ... is it ??

However, the bottom line is that is wasn't spotted. I just find that amazing.

How can you 'spot' that a ligament will go in a certain situation?

So, you're satisfied that playing him last night was wise are you ?

OK ... I give up.

It was as unavoidable and unpredictable as someone turning an ankle. There .... happy with that ?

I'm merely asking how you can predict or spot it? Or what should have been done instead?

It isn't a gradual injury it just 'goes'.

They could have pushed him harder in training and it go then, but the result is the same....

Unless the club have ignored advice from the surgeon and specialists, and I will say that seems unlikely, I don't know what you expect them to do. This isn't rushing someone back on a cold december's night from a hamstring and it re-occurring.

This is testing a repaired knee in a match situation after months of recovery and training. It went. But I'm not sure how a different result could have been achieved short of Holden retiring......

[StaffsTrotter]

↑↑

Agreed Insane.

But really, the last operation wasn't a success ? So, oh ... I know ... let's test it out by chucking him into a game !!

I'm so glad we have this brilliant medical team these days.

I don't think they threw him in knowing the op was failed. I suspect he broke down and they discovered it. I mean no operation like this is guaranteed and I'm sure the surgeon warned him of the risks etc. Fact is when you had three ops on the same knee likelihood of further issues and complications just goes up and up.

As you say Insane, the ability to blame or pinpoint what if anything went wrong is well nigh impossible. The medical team tending to his injury would have covered a number of disciplines, each of which would have had an important part to play. As they say bone breaks are easy to sort, its always the ligaments, nerves etc where the problems arise. The orthopaedic chap could have done an excellent job, but the rehab might not have, or he may now just have an innate weakness.
Its all just very sad. Without pre-judging the outcome for Stu, its hard to believe that our PL CM pairing of just a couple of years ago could both potentially have their careers cut short - talk about highs and lows of a professional footballer.

[boltonboris]

Should we change the thread title to "Holden on to his knees".

Oh, and BWFCI. Fair enough.. I just seem to recall a damning indictment from you regarding the treatment of Stu's last injury before this one and the one before...

[leopold]

ACL are incredibly difficult injuries because of where they are located and the lack of blood flow to them. A friend of mine tore his at age 17 and had it repaired. several years later the other one went, mostly from imbalances in trying to regain strength after the other healed. He's 35 now and done 'em both again at least once since the initial surgeries. What I don't understand is how NFL players are able to sustain comebacks from it, and those injuries happen ALL the time during the season.

[a1]

the first time he did it, it wasnt the 'normal way' you'd normally injure it, thru twisting it or falling over or whatevers.

when ,say, tom brady did his , somebody fell on him, he didnt take a Traxion boot to the knee like our stuart appeared to..

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Has Stu had this infamous learning to run again training?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Sad to see that no matter how desperately unfortunate the situation, every thread can be reduced to the same old tired Coyle/Freedman shite.

[bobo the clown]

Sad to see that no matter how desperately unfortunate the situation, every thread can be reduced to the same old tired Coyle/Freedman shite.

Truw.

But maybe showing how thin the ice is that DF walks on right now.

[Bijou Bob]

This is a longish thread which has sort of lost the point for me. Holden's injury was a tragedy for the lad. He played a small number of matches for us, during which he proved himself a little above average. Frankly, it's a deal which has been bad news for the club if not the player, largely similar to the Sean Davies/O'Brian sagas. It's no one's fault, it's not a conspiracy, it's just life.

He's a nice lad who will now retire in luxury with a large BWFC and ASA funded wedge. Time to move on.

[Gravedigger]

Poor bugger, in some respects. Just hope he has an out in the business world. On a more mercenary note, how does the club fare insurance wise and do we have to pay compo or is it covered by insurance? Lots of people were expecting the return of a saviour and I know there'll be disappointment but as said, that's life sometimes.

[Prufrock]

A little above average?!

It was a relatively small sample size, but he was bloody top drawer pre-injury!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

A little above average?!

It was a relatively small sample size, but he was bloody top drawer pre-injury!

Top of the tackle charts in The World's Best LeagueTM

[Lost Leopard Spot]

A little above average?!

It was a relatively small sample size, but he was bloody top drawer pre-injury!

Top of the tackle charts in The World's Best LeagueTM

There's at least one fnarr in there somewhere...