Freedman out!

[BWFC_Insane]

Burnley...............

Yep and for every Burnley there is a Wolves a Blackpool and even worse a Coventry. Burnley are a case in point though in that they've been run within their means haven't aggressively pursued promotion have had to sell their best players and generally haven't been sacking managers left right and centre. They've primarily been a championship club who've had one brief foray into the premiership so far.

I'm all for saying that what Dyche has done there this season has been absolutely excellent. But they've bumbled around mid table and lower in this league for a long time.

Anyone can stick their hands up and say "look at what X" manager is doing whilst they're successful. But who would realistically be happy for us to follow Burnley's model. I doubt many would and the lack of ambition brigade would be drum banging again.

[truewhite15]

There is an assumption that changing the manager would make everything better. But it hasn't in the past and I think it would be a fair question for Eddie to ask "what have I got to show for all the 'ambition' (read money spent) I've shown previously?".

Oh yes it has.

Appointing Allardyce, Rioch, Greaves etc. all made it better.

But of course there's no guarantee that it will, unless you appoint the right one. Which at this point in time Freedman clearly isn't.

I meant in the time since Eddie Davies has been writing the cheques.

Hoping to find the next Rioch or Allardyce feels to me like searching for a needle in a haystack. And possibly the thirst for that has clouded decisions at Bolton since Allardyce left. Instead of saying that we needed to re-focus the club we've been searching for another man to do exactly what Allardyce did and lead from the front in a way few can.

I mean it is like at Man Utd, they'll never find another Ferguson, they might be better off looking for something different entirely....

And I agree with what you're saying. I think the danger is that we are obsessed with the "right one" when the reality is most clubs are making do with someone less than ideal through necessity or simply lack of options. I think/fear that is where we're at. And expecting to unearth a miracle man because we managed it a 14 years ago is possibly only going to lead to further frustration.

Someone competent would do not Jesus!
We are talking wining promotion from the chumpionship not having a manager capable of wining the champions league or the premeirship, something I doubt even the most tin foil hatted fan we had could expect!

A manager as good as Allardyce only just got us promoted via the playoffs during our third season in this division.

Given the increased financial gap and the drop off next season in our income, we will have the budget of a mid table championship side, IF Eddie persists in trying to match up with the FFP rules. Promotion will be well beyond mere "competence".

Oh, well, f*ck it then. Let's be all happy clappy with being lower table in the Championship, 'cos God forbid we should target a Premier League return. Let's put up with the f*ckwit in charge, 'cos it's absolutely impossible that a team with a Premier League stadium and facilities could get anybody better.

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh, well, f*ck it then. Let's be all happy clappy with being lower table in the Championship, 'cos God forbid we should target a Premier League return. Let's put up with the f*ckwit in charge, 'cos it's absolutely impossible that a team with a Premier League stadium and facilities could get anybody better.

Or we accept there isn't money get on with things, stop stamping our feet every week and try and rebuild in this division in the manner of Burnley, Derby, Leicester etc etc.

The decision isn't mine or yours it is Eddie's. And I'm merely trying to show why he might be reticent to make another change and throw yet more money at it in the process.

There comes a point where you have to concede that changing managers isn't halting the slide. IT COULD be that Eddie is at that point now.

[Hoboh]

Oh, well, f*ck it then. Let's be all happy clappy with being lower table in the Championship, 'cos God forbid we should target a Premier League return. Let's put up with the f*ckwit in charge, 'cos it's absolutely impossible that a team with a Premier League stadium and facilities could get anybody better.

Or we accept there isn't money get on with things, stop stamping our feet every week and try and rebuild in this division in the manner of Burnley, Derby, Leicester etc etc.

The decision isn't mine or yours it is Eddie's. And I'm merely trying to show why he might be reticent to make another change and throw yet more money at it in the process.

There comes a point where you have to concede that changing managers isn't halting the slide. IT COULD be that Eddie is at that point now.

Well we ain't that far from rock bottom, that much I concede.
What however I will not concede is that even with the current setup, bar of course Freedman, we should be more than capable of a place in the playoffs and the fact we won't get near them is down to the incompetence of an untried Gartside and his 'advisors' lead gamble.

[Worthy4England]

Yes, they have shitloads of money at Burnley and Derby. Clough was going ok for Derby, but they decided to replace him and are doing better. Dyche is working for Burnley, who'd have thunk it. It is like needle in a haystack somewhat, but if you believe your squad is reasonably invested, then it's probably cheaper to change a management team than 15 players.

[Worthy4England]

Oh, well, f*ck it then. Let's be all happy clappy with being lower table in the Championship, 'cos God forbid we should target a Premier League return. Let's put up with the f*ckwit in charge, 'cos it's absolutely impossible that a team with a Premier League stadium and facilities could get anybody better.

Or we accept there isn't money get on with things, stop stamping our feet every week and try and rebuild in this division in the manner of Burnley, Derby, Leicester etc etc.

The decision isn't mine or yours it is Eddie's. And I'm merely trying to show why he might be reticent to make another change and throw yet more money at it in the process.

There comes a point where you have to concede that changing managers isn't halting the slide. IT COULD be that Eddie is at that point now.

How do rebuild with no money. Either there's some money, in which case investing it in a new manager might be a better bet. Or there isn't, in which case we can't rebuild...

[bobo the clown]

You see, he has a talent for spotting a reasonable player .... just no talent for managing a club. Not even for managing these reasonable players he buys.

He's a walking contradiction who's playing at being a football manager and making a piss poor job of it.

I am just convinced that he's going to be here for next season and can't bring myself to wish the poor performances required to have him binned. Trouble is that poor performance is almost guaranteed if he stays.

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh, well, f*ck it then. Let's be all happy clappy with being lower table in the Championship, 'cos God forbid we should target a Premier League return. Let's put up with the f*ckwit in charge, 'cos it's absolutely impossible that a team with a Premier League stadium and facilities could get anybody better.

Or we accept there isn't money get on with things, stop stamping our feet every week and try and rebuild in this division in the manner of Burnley, Derby, Leicester etc etc.

The decision isn't mine or yours it is Eddie's. And I'm merely trying to show why he might be reticent to make another change and throw yet more money at it in the process.

There comes a point where you have to concede that changing managers isn't halting the slide. IT COULD be that Eddie is at that point now.

How do rebuild with no money. Either there's some money, in which case investing it in a new manager might be a better bet. Or there isn't, in which case we can't rebuild...

Rebuild by offloading the expensive players who are out of contract, bring in cheaper ones, younger ones etc. Same way all relegated clubs have had to do eventually if they don't go back up.

Rebuild doesn't necessarily mean bringing in "better quality" I guess here just re-structuring so we have a squad with no wastage in and that runs to the required budget.

I still wonder why people think Eddie hasn't moved on the managerial situation yet.....

[Gary the Enfield]

There is an assumption that changing the manager would make everything better. But it hasn't in the past and I think it would be a fair question for Eddie to ask "what have I got to show for all the 'ambition' (read money spent) I've shown previously?".

Oh yes it has.

Appointing Allardyce, Rioch, Greaves etc. all made it better.

But of course there's no guarantee that it will, unless you appoint the right one. Which at this point in time Freedman clearly isn't.

I meant in the time since Eddie Davies has been writing the cheques.

Hoping to find the next Rioch or Allardyce feels to me like searching for a needle in a haystack. And possibly the thirst for that has clouded decisions at Bolton since Allardyce left. Instead of saying that we needed to re-focus the club we've been searching for another man to do exactly what Allardyce did and lead from the front in a way few can.

I mean it is like at Man Utd, they'll never find another Ferguson, they might be better off looking for something different entirely....

And I agree with what you're saying. I think the danger is that we are obsessed with the "right one" when the reality is most clubs are making do with someone less than ideal through necessity or simply lack of options. I think/fear that is where we're at. And expecting to unearth a miracle man because we managed it a 14 years ago is possibly only going to lead to further frustration.

Someone competent would do not Jesus!
We are talking wining promotion from the chumpionship not having a manager capable of wining the champions league or the premeirship, something I doubt even the most tin foil hatted fan we had could expect!

A manager as good as Allardyce only just got us promoted via the playoffs during our third season in this division.
Given the increased financial gap and the drop off next season in our income, we will have the budget of a mid table championship side, IF Eddie persists in trying to match up with the FFP rules. Promotion will be well beyond mere "competence".

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

[BWFC_Insane]

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

That is my point though, Allardyce was top notch. But we didn't storm this league even with him in charge. We went up via the play-offs. People are acting like any half competent manager can easily just take us up. Which is nonsense in my view. This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

[Lord Kangana]

An actual quote, not a paraphrase, or a nuance, or a rumour, or suggestion...

(From the back of the BeN in reference to Baptiste)

"He can sulk for 3 weeks if he wants. I'll just get someone who can defend a little better".

May I ask, before any discussion takes place as to the massive, unnecessary bellenderyness of making a statement like that, who this someone is who will "just get" and who will also "defend better"? And if they exist within the squad, why haven't they been playing?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I saw that LK and wondered at the feck wittery of it. He really does need to keep his gob shut, or at least try to engage a few brain cells.

[TANGODANCER]

This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

We're unlikely, at least for a while, to have the players Allardyce had. Despite all else, he was a tough, no-nonsense football manager who realised the value of players of the same ilk, the Davies, Campo and Nolan type lads whose heads didn't go down when we went behind. Tough lads you could rely on to try and who were proud to wear a Bolton shirt. Somehow, although I'm not the best qualified to judge, I don't sense that in the side right now. It looks like we've got a likely pair in Juke and Joe Mason right now and a bit of promise in odd positions in midfield and even Zat seems to have a bit of rejuvenation currently, but still too many orchids adorning the sick-room and not enough dog-daisies growing on the pitch.

[Tombwfc]

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

That is my point though, Allardyce was top notch. But we didn't storm this league even with him in charge. We went up via the play-offs. People are acting like any half competent manager can easily just take us up. Which is nonsense in my view. This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

Is there a middle ground somewhere between finding a manager who can "easily take us up" and finding a manager that can get us above Bournemouth?

With a squad full of Premier League experience and a £30m+ wage budget Dougie Freedman has managed us to 17th in the Championship, with a season-high of 11th. What on earth is he going to be like if and when we do have to halve our spending?

[Prufrock]

An actual quote, not a paraphrase, or a nuance, or a rumour, or suggestion...

(From the back of the BeN in reference to Baptiste)

"He can sulk for 3 weeks if he wants. I'll just get someone who can defend a little better".

May I ask, before any discussion takes place as to the massive, unnecessary bellenderyness of making a statement like that, who this someone is who will "just get" and who will also "defend better"? And if they exist within the squad, why haven't they been playing?

It's a bit of an odd set of quotes, here are the ones around it,

" Asked if he was worried a straight red could earn Baptiste a three-match ban, the Scot said after the game: “It doesn’t give me any problems at all because he deserves to miss three games,” he said.

“He can sulk for three weeks if he wants, I’ll just get someone who can defend a little bit better than that.

“I have got no complaints on the penalty, or the sending off, our man got the wrong side of him.

“It was a straight red for Baptiste. It was ball watching and he’d got the wrong side.” "

I think it's meant to be a bit of reverse psychology but it just sounds weird. I'm also a little concerned that our manager doesn't appear to know it's only a one match ban for a professional foul.

[boltonboris]

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

That is my point though, Allardyce was top notch. But we didn't storm this league even with him in charge. We went up via the play-offs. People are acting like any half competent manager can easily just take us up. Which is nonsense in my view. This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

Behind two clubs with mahoosive resources.

So in effect, he made us the best of the also-rans. We're not also-rans anymore. We have the squad and the infrastructure to compete at the top. This is the issue with Freedman.. He's getting an easy ride by people like yourself, when it's plainly obvious, he isn't performing.

[BWFC_Insane]

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

That is my point though, Allardyce was top notch. But we didn't storm this league even with him in charge. We went up via the play-offs. People are acting like any half competent manager can easily just take us up. Which is nonsense in my view. This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

Behind two clubs with mahoosive resources.

So in effect, he made us the best of the also-rans. We're not also-rans anymore. We have the squad and the infrastructure to compete at the top. This is the issue with Freedman.. He's getting an easy ride by people like yourself, when it's plainly obvious, he isn't performing.

Don't follow this. We won't have a top 6 budget next season. This season we're not top two in terms of budget either.

Why hasn't Eddie acted?

[boltonboris]

What a massively blinkered perspective.

A manager as good as Allardyce had us in three semi-finals in his FIRST season at the club. The second season we were promoted and he built us up to the point where we had 4 successive top 8 premiership finishes and two European tours.

Carry on.

That is my point though, Allardyce was top notch. But we didn't storm this league even with him in charge. We went up via the play-offs. People are acting like any half competent manager can easily just take us up. Which is nonsense in my view. This is a tough league to get out of. We're highly unlikely to find anyone as good as Allardyce hence there are definitely no guarantees.

Behind two clubs with mahoosive resources.

So in effect, he made us the best of the also-rans. We're not also-rans anymore. We have the squad and the infrastructure to compete at the top. This is the issue with Freedman.. He's getting an easy ride by people like yourself, when it's plainly obvious, he isn't performing.

Don't follow this. We won't have a top 6 budget next season. This season we're not top two in terms of budget either.

Why hasn't Eddie acted?

But we did this season.. We're looking over our shoulders at the relegation spots.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Shortly arriving on Platform Three, eight people suggesting Billy Davies.

[Lord Kangana]

A good or bad thing?