The athletics/running thread

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely confudulated by how 'weak' the human body seems to have become in modern times. And, as I stated, I've never had an injury... I don't think that's because I'm fantastic, it's because (probably) modern humans aren't. After all, half of the injuries descibed on here would lead to the extinction of mankind if we were still dependant on savannah hunting techniques. JSL, no need to get offended.

[Gary the Enfield]

I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely confudulated by how 'weak' the human body seems to have become in modern times. And, as I stated, I've never had an injury... I don't think that's because I'm fantastic, it's because (probably) modern humans aren't. After all, half of the injuries descibed on here would lead to the extinction of mankind if we were still dependant on savannah hunting techniques. JSL, no need to get offended.

I'm not offended. Mildly irked perhaps. You can come across as a really patronizing tit sometimes.

[Prufrock]

Really though :/?

The Roger Bannister who at 23 broke the four minute mile with a time slower than the 40 year old bloke mentioned by GG back a few pages managed it? And a lot slower than the current record of 3.43, held by someone who, you know, trains.

Wiki has the earliest men's track world record which still stands as being from 1996. Hardly supports 'modern man' being weak.

And warm-ups causing injuries?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Really though :/?

The Roger Bannister who at 23 broke the four minute mile with a time slower than the 40 year old bloke mentioned by GG back a few pages managed it? And a lot slower than the current record of 3.43, held by someone who, you know, trains.

Wiki has the earliest men's track world record which still stands as being from 1996. Hardly supports 'modern man' being weak.

And warm-ups causing injuries?

From that, I gather that you're aiming to shatter the World Record!
Trying not to be a patronising tit, and (just for arguments sake) accepting that all you (or anybody) wants to do is to race as fast as you can, why then is it that (being a patronising tit put to one side) I don't do "Sports Science" and have never.warmed up in my life, and yet it's me, 58 years old, without injury. I understand GtE's explanation that he's put the effort in, and maybe that's a dig to me that my time's are shit, I understand that concept - what I don't understand is your lack of empathy with a potential concept that neither of you have really explored and both of you are prepared just to dismiss me as being a tit. I'm stunned at your lack of enquiry.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I might have phrased that ^ in a way that doesn't express the number one concept here.
Which is this: everybody (seemingly) is sold on sports science - but it's not really either science, or indeed sports science.
Three things to consider (and I mean, in a really patronising titty way, feckin concentrate, ok)
Why do you think that some forty year old shattered Roger Bannister's record?
Because it might be
That the 44 yr old trained harder
Or it might be that back then the only one prepared to try it was a pipe smoking member of the Oxbridge elite.
Secondly, when I said 'modern man', I wasn't distinguishing between now and 1980 ffs, I was distinguishing between now and 100,000 years ago.
Thirdly, whatever I think, you don't have (despite my patronising attitude) a better theory do you?

[Prufrock]

A lack of enquiry or alternative theory about or to what?

You haven't put anything forward. What are you saying? Warming up and training causes injuries? Well, warming up definitely doesn't, and training definitely does, but without it you definitely can't reach your potential. Or that man generally isn't as quick or as sturdy as he was 10,000 years ago? On that I have no idea, as I don't know how quick or sturdy man was 10,000. My own limited knowledge however is that we didn't survive because we could outrun Cheetah's but because a) we could outthink them, and b)we could make tools. JSL.

And, if you're on about versus 10,000 years ago what the feck has your lack of injuries got to do with anything?

[Gary the Enfield]

I've no idea whether your times are shit or not. You haven't mentioned them. The fact that you are doing what you say you do is actually admirable given that you are 58.

If you are offering advice on how to stay injury free you have a strange way of offering it. One which comes across as patronizing and sanctimonious.

And one I'm not curious to pursue.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Ok, I've now got two conversations going on, both of which seem to have turned acrimonious. I had no intention of putting people's back's up, but yes I have a theory that is against the accepted grain. Before you dismiss it out of hand, either of you, just remember that a little over a decade ago anybody with an ulcer automatically, according to medical science, was either stressed or overweight. It took a pioneering Aussie junior doctor to demonstrate an alternative. That alternative, treatment for campylobacter, is now de riguer, in fact ulcers rarely feature in doctor's surgeries anymore when once they were an eighth of the workload.
And anotherthing before you sneer me to death, have you ever seen a greyhound warm up, or indeed warm down? They lie about all day long, see a rabbit and take off. The fastest greyhound isn't one that spends half its day doing stretching exercises. Might be a lesson there, but only to the enquiring mind (that's me can't help myself being a patronising tit).

[Prufrock]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

[LeverEnd]

My theory on the whole injury thing is that some people are genetically predisposed to injury, and I seem to be one of them (right ankle deformity causing biomechanical issues). In the past they would have stopped doing whatever sport they did and filled their time with something else. So the people who were near the top had to be more robust, and there were lots more trying to get there. Now there are fewer people exercising hard, but the ones that do get injured have options in terms of orthotics, physio etc to keep them going. It's kind of natural selection in reverse I suppose.
Also, regarding your own sporting endeavours, like you say you aren't pushing yourself to run fast times by training lots, that's what's injures you, always being close to the red line or whatever you want to call it. Another issue is that people used to be more active generally, now they try to do stuff form a sedentary starting point, which means that their bodies aren't ready to be pushed.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

My theory on the whole injury thing is that some people are genetically predisposed to injury, and I seem to be one of them (right ankle deformity causing biomechanical issues). In the past they would have stopped doing whatever sport they did and filled their time with something else. So the people who were near the top had to be more robust, and there were lots more trying to get there. Now there are fewer people exercising hard, but the ones that do get injured have options in terms of orthotics, physio etc to keep them going. It's kind of natural selection in reverse I suppose.
Also, regarding your own sporting endeavours, like you say you aren't pushing yourself to run fast times by training lots, that's what's injures you, always being close to the red line or whatever you want to call it. Another issue is that people used to be more active generally, now they try to do stuff form a sedentary starting point, which means that their bodies aren't ready to be pushed.

None of which I have an issue with, indeed all of which I agree with, it's just that most people seem to think that injuries aren't "their fault" when, if you analyse it, it totally is, if you take into account everything you've just said...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

[Gary the Enfield]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

We're not Greyhounds?

Your 'theory' is that someone else's theory is rubbish? How enlightening. I tell you what. I'll continue to train and improve from where I was 8 years ago (couldn't run for a bus, swim more than two lengths in the pool without stopping and doing NO cycling whatsoever) to constantly improving my times, being able to swim a mile in a session in (comparative) ease and cycling for 30 to 40 miles without too much effort.

All this is through training. My continued health and wellbeing (mental and physical) is worth the odd injury.

Still not sure what your lack of injury has to do with Neolithic man, however.

[Gooner Girl]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

[Gary the Enfield]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

Are you suggesting we euthanize LLS? Seems a bit extreme.

[Gooner Girl]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

Are you suggesting we euthanize LLS? Seems a bit extreme.

Nah, just anyone over the age of say, 47?!

[Gary the Enfield]

What's your theory? You haven't put anything forward. I thought it was 'training doesnt make you better' but that doesn't seem to be the case given your response to me pointing out that 41 year old quicker than Bannister.

My theory is "Sports Science" isn't. A science, it's just faith. Somebody tells you to warm up, and suddenly it becomes an article of faith...you just believe it, viscerally, without questioning a thing. As I say, how many greyhounds have ever warmed up?

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

Are you suggesting we euthanize LLS? Seems a bit extreme.

Nah, just anyone over the age of say, 47?!

Go for it.

[Gooner Girl]

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

Are you suggesting we euthanize LLS? Seems a bit extreme.

Nah, just anyone over the age of say, 47?!

Go for it.

How old are you?!

[Gary the Enfield]

And how many greyhounds are abandoned/put to sleep way before the conclusion of their natural life span because they are worn out/injured/no use anymore as race dogs?

Are you suggesting we euthanize LLS? Seems a bit extreme.

Nah, just anyone over the age of say, 47?!

Go for it.

How old are you?!

Not 47.

[Gooner Girl]

How old are you?!

Not 47.

But I said over that age! And you aren't under it, are you?!

I might excuse you anyway, you're alright!