The Debt.

[Hoboh]

Well all I can say is if we are bunging £9 mill in there we ain't as skint as some make us out to be and it begs the question is this the best spend?

Yeah, there's no way we'd be spending £9m on this if we were as desperate as some like to make out. I think the limitations we have are solely because of FFP, not because Eddie doesn't want or can't afford to invest any more.

There's some 2+2 = 5 going on here, methinks. This is a different type of asset to be investing in, than a £50m wage bill or £10m transfer fees.

I don't reckon Eddie Davies is "skint", that doesn't mean to say he wants to continue throwing what he has at player wages and transfer fees...

Yeah I think some people need to understand the difference between investing in a physical facility to investing in players, managers and wages.

It is totally different.

Nobody thinks Eddie has no money left. But he has thrown a lot in down the years or players, managers and wages and it hasn't worked. So either he is trying a different approach or has simply said 'enough is enough'.

Nine million quid hardly says that!

[BWFC_Insane]

Well all I can say is if we are bunging £9 mill in there we ain't as skint as some make us out to be and it begs the question is this the best spend?

Yeah, there's no way we'd be spending £9m on this if we were as desperate as some like to make out. I think the limitations we have are solely because of FFP, not because Eddie doesn't want or can't afford to invest any more.

There's some 2+2 = 5 going on here, methinks. This is a different type of asset to be investing in, than a £50m wage bill or £10m transfer fees.

I don't reckon Eddie Davies is "skint", that doesn't mean to say he wants to continue throwing what he has at player wages and transfer fees...

Yeah I think some people need to understand the difference between investing in a physical facility to investing in players, managers and wages.

It is totally different.

Nobody thinks Eddie has no money left. But he has thrown a lot in down the years or players, managers and wages and it hasn't worked. So either he is trying a different approach or has simply said 'enough is enough'.

Nine million quid hardly says that!

Investment in buildings and physical facilities is very different to putting money into players and agents pockets. Eddie has done a lot of that and may have simply decided that is not the way to go.

The investment in academy facilities would suggest he is looking for a more long term solution.

[boltonboris]

It's asset on the books, it's a positive investment and it isn't going to upsticks in 3 years after being shit.

[Worthy4England]

Anyhow, in anticipation of Izual Rebirth's weekly post, is there any update on us going into administration yet?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Anyhow, in anticipation of Izual Rebirth's weekly post, is there any update on us going into administration yet?

I think he's a KPMG intern touting for business...

[Hoboh]

It's asset on the books, it's a positive investment and it isn't going to upsticks in 3 years after being shit.

Given its past record it ain't going to upsticks after being shit for 6 years plus!
It's only asset for the land, nowt else!

[boltonboris]

It's asset on the books, it's a positive investment and it isn't going to upsticks in 3 years after being shit.

Given its past record it ain't going to upsticks after being shit for 6 years plus!
It's only asset for the land, nowt else!

And?? Makes it an investment rather than a write off

[Hoboh]

It's asset on the books, it's a positive investment and it isn't going to upsticks in 3 years after being shit.

Given its past record it ain't going to upsticks after being shit for 6 years plus!
It's only asset for the land, nowt else!

And?? Makes it an investment rather than a write off

And land is only a useful asset if someone can find something to build on it that someone will buy/use

[a1]

thats not true either.

an asset is not 'worth something' only because it can eventually be useful to a third party.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

It's asset on the books, it's a positive investment and it isn't going to upsticks in 3 years after being shit.

Given its past record it ain't going to upsticks after being shit for 6 years plus!
It's only asset for the land, nowt else!

And?? Makes it an investment rather than a write off

And land is only a useful asset if someone can find something to build on it that someone will buy/use

A piece of land, no matter how shit, will always be more useful than N'gog. On that basis, I vote it is a much better investment than the shysters signed by recent managers.

[Bruce Rioja]

Listened to Niall Quinn ont' wireless this morning. All the Sunderland players have it written into their contracts that if/when they're relegated they don't earn anything like as much as they would in the Prem. That's the kind of sound business and fiscal sense that appears to have been completely absent at our place.

[BWFC_Insane]

Listened to Niall Quinn ont' wireless this morning. All the Sunderland players have it written into their contracts that if/when they're relegated they don't earn anything like as much as they would in the Prem. That's the kind of sound business and fiscal sense that appears to have been completely absent at our place.

Not being funny, but how would Niall Quinn know?

[Bruce Rioja]

Listened to Niall Quinn ont' wireless this morning. All the Sunderland players have it written into their contracts that if/when they're relegated they don't earn anything like as much as they would in the Prem. That's the kind of sound business and fiscal sense that appears to have been completely absent at our place.

Not being funny, but how would Niall Quinn know?

Why would he not know? Surely he still speaks with those in the know?!

“I’m sounding very defeatist here and Sunderland fans will be alarmed but the one assurance I feel isn’t that much talked about is I know the majority of Sunderland players have relegation clauses, which means effectively the wage bill almost halves.

My point isn't so much what Niall Quinn does or doesn't know, it's that the only agreement we appear to have entered into upon getting relegated was to release Reo Coker. This idea that 'Oh, players won't sign for you in the first place if you put relegation clauses in' seems to be bollocks. How strong was Knight's hand at the negotiating table exactly when not one single other club had come in for him?

[BWFC_Insane]

Listened to Niall Quinn ont' wireless this morning. All the Sunderland players have it written into their contracts that if/when they're relegated they don't earn anything like as much as they would in the Prem. That's the kind of sound business and fiscal sense that appears to have been completely absent at our place.

Not being funny, but how would Niall Quinn know?

Why would he not know? Surely he still speaks with those in the know?!

“I’m sounding very defeatist here and Sunderland fans will be alarmed but the one assurance I feel isn’t that much talked about is I know the majority of Sunderland players have relegation clauses, which means effectively the wage bill almost halves.

My point isn't so much what Niall Quinn does or doesn't know, it's that the only agreement we appear to have entered into upon getting relegated was to release Reo Coker. This idea that 'Oh, players won't sign for you in the first place if you put relegation clauses in' seems to be bollocks. How strong was Knight's hand at the negotiating table exactly when not one single other club had come in for him?

Our wage bill did effectively, almost halve upon relegation. Not sure if we had clauses in it or not tbh?

Hopefully his knowledge of those contracts is more insightful than his co-commentaries are.....

[Prufrock]

I think it's pretty widespread. There was a lot of pointing and laughing when Newcastle went down because they didn't have them.

Would hope we did!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For years Garty was telling us we'd be fine if we went down, implying clauses were in contracts. Then again, he implied someone was signing and he had a fax in his pocket. What to believe...

[BWFC_Insane]

For years Garty was telling us we'd be fine if we went down, implying clauses were in contracts. Then again, he implied someone was signing and he had a fax in his pocket. What to believe...

We are fine aren't we? FFP could not possibly have been forseen....and even then, unless you believe a certain poster, we're not in any danger as it stands of administration!

[Prufrock]

Could not possibly have been foreseen is a bit strong, given it was voted for by the clubs!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For years Garty was telling us we'd be fine if we went down, implying clauses were in contracts. Then again, he implied someone was signing and he had a fax in his pocket. What to believe...

We are fine aren't we? FFP could not possibly have been forseen....and even then, unless you believe a certain poster, we're not in any danger as it stands of administration!

We simply don't know if we're fine. There are very mixed messages coming from the club, verbal and deeds. FFP didn't just appear when Dougie started mentioning it every other interview. It was proposed/discussed etc prior to being voted on and implemented. Things will become somewhat clearer when the next set of accounts come out.

[BWFC_Insane]

For years Garty was telling us we'd be fine if we went down, implying clauses were in contracts. Then again, he implied someone was signing and he had a fax in his pocket. What to believe...

We are fine aren't we? FFP could not possibly have been forseen....and even then, unless you believe a certain poster, we're not in any danger as it stands of administration!

We simply don't know if we're fine. There are very mixed messages coming from the club, verbal and deeds. FFP didn't just appear when Dougie started mentioning it every other interview. It was proposed/discussed etc prior to being voted on and implemented. Things will become somewhat clearer when the next set of accounts come out.

What I mean is, FFP became clearer once we'd been relegated. Yes it was on the table before but I think when Gartside said we were ok financially if relegated FFP details were still being worked out, let alone implemented.

The thing is that we're fine in terms of not going into administration. I'm not really sure in what other way you mean by fine. Are we going to comply with FFP? Is that a marker of fine? We know we're in debt to Eddie but all that really has happened is that FFP means we can't go into any further debt (over 8M a season) without penalty.

I think that when Gartside said we'd be ok were we relegated his promise has held has it not? We're not in admin, there has been no desperate clearing of the decks, beyond what you'd expect upon relegation.

We've lost income, cut our costs and presumably will do so further.

If making a loss is the definition then we weren't fine with a top flight income.

There is a difference between being on the brink of administration and having to cut expenditure as income falls. Put it this way, I don't think we're any less fine than we were in the top flight, just we have less resource to play with.