Abdoulaye's going t'Souk transfer thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

Eagles played his absolutely best towards the end of last season, during the run-in, was excellent. Freedman was the manager then, still is. I mean I, along with everyone else felt a new manager would get better out of our players than Coyle did. And it did for a while, but then we've reverted back. I think we've got too many players who fail to take responsibility and would rather blame everyone else, the manager, the fans etc.

And I don't like giving them an excuse.

If they've played below the levels we expect for a while, you accept that because form dips etc. If they've done it consistently and repeatedly for long periods under different managers, then either they aren't as good as we or they think, or they have the wrong attitude.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

Eagles played his absolutely best towards the end of last season, during the run-in, was excellent. Freedman was the manager then, still is. I mean I, along with everyone else felt a new manager would get better out of our players than Coyle did. And it did for a while, but then we've reverted back. I think we've got too many players who fail to take responsibility and would rather blame everyone else, the manager, the fans etc.

And I don't like giving them an excuse.

If they've played below the levels we expect for a while, you accept that because form dips etc. If they've done it consistently and repeatedly for long periods under different managers, then either they aren't as good as we or they think, or they have the wrong attitude.

Who said anything about not blaming players?

If I recall, Eagles played fairly well when he was consistently in the side. How anyone is expected to play well when they are used inconsistently. How is anyone supposed to be motivated when playing well consistently often results in being dropped. Eagles doesn't get off scot free with me (I've been fairly critical of him in his time here), but I doubt the lad knows whether he is coming or going this season.

It isn't all Dougie's fault, like it isn't all Coyle's fault. Something isn't right when so many players are performing below their ability. Personally I think the selection lottery has contributed to this.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dougie's latest "genius" statement in todays BEN is that "the club is now scouting for players for next Jan's transfer window in Australia, Switzerland and Norway as the clubs stats show thats where the best value for money players are"????
He also goes on to say that the club "finished scouting for players for this summers transfer window at the end of Feb"?????

Now I may sound stupid here, but surely how can you decide in Feb, which players you want to go for in the summer? Does that mean he's not going to look at anybody who may become available after Feb if he's not already scouted them???

He really confuddles me does Dougie

Yeah, that's bizarre. Sounds smug, and counterintuitive: not only could (as you say) new players become available, but old "approved" ones could hit terrible form, or previously rejected ones show a marked improvement.

The actual quotes (source: BN):

It’s a great fancy, sexy idea – fly into the World Cup and find a hidden gem. But I’d like to think my scouts, good old-fashioned scouts, have already done their homework on players if they are playing at the World Cup.

I’m looking at markets where you can buy players – Norway, Switzerland, Australia – to see if we can get value for money. One or two of those players might be going to the World Cup but we won’t be going there to actually scout them because we’ll have already done it.

We’ve already identified what we are doing this summer. It sounds strange but we’re viewing matches right now, especially abroad, for the January market. We stopped at the end of February looking at the current window and right now we’re looking to next year and where we’re going. They're still playing in Scandinavia right now and it’s a fantastic time to go over there. And all our data tells us that Switzerland and Australia are good value for money.

We’ve already got our list of targets and obviously we all hope we sign the lads at the top of that list. But if that doesn’t happen, we go down that list until the value is there for the money we have.

[BWFC_Insane]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

Eagles played his absolutely best towards the end of last season, during the run-in, was excellent. Freedman was the manager then, still is. I mean I, along with everyone else felt a new manager would get better out of our players than Coyle did. And it did for a while, but then we've reverted back. I think we've got too many players who fail to take responsibility and would rather blame everyone else, the manager, the fans etc.

And I don't like giving them an excuse.

If they've played below the levels we expect for a while, you accept that because form dips etc. If they've done it consistently and repeatedly for long periods under different managers, then either they aren't as good as we or they think, or they have the wrong attitude.

Who said anything about not blaming players?

If I recall, Eagles played fairly well when he was consistently in the side. How anyone is expected to play well when they are used inconsistently. How is anyone supposed to be motivated when playing well consistently often results in being dropped. Eagles doesn't get off scot free with me (I've been fairly critical of him in his time here), but I doubt the lad knows whether he is coming or going this season.

It isn't all Dougie's fault, like it isn't all Coyle's fault. Something isn't right when so many players are performing below their ability. Personally I think the selection lottery has contributed to this.

Eagles was left out of the side after playing consistently badly this season (who is that the fault of?). Then got injured.

[bobo the clown]

Eagles was left out of the side after playing consistently badly this season (who is that the fault of?). Then got injured.

^^ He got injured after 60 minutes of the first match of the season. I think he'd scored. So that's a bit harsh.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Eagles was left out of the side after playing consistently badly this season (who is that the fault of?). Then got injured.

September aside, he's been in, out, in and out. He's been so busy doing the hokey cokey it is no wonder he's not performed. Yet, he persists in playing Trotter, despite contributing little of note. I'm sure Eagles isn't blameless, but I don't think he's had a decent run of games to play his way in to any kind of form since September.

[thebish]

Dougie's latest "genius" statement in todays BEN is that "the club is now scouting for players for next Jan's transfer window in Australia, Switzerland and Norway as the clubs stats show thats where the best value for money players are"????
He also goes on to say that the club "finished scouting for players for this summers transfer window at the end of Feb"?????

Now I may sound stupid here, but surely how can you decide in Feb, which players you want to go for in the summer? Does that mean he's not going to look at anybody who may become available after Feb if he's not already scouted them???

He really confuddles me does Dougie

Yeah, that's bizarre. Sounds smug, and counterintuitive: not only could (as you say) new players become available, but old "approved" ones could hit terrible form, or previously rejected ones show a marked improvement.

I don't think his quotes rule out looking at players becoming available... he has not said that he has closed the list of players he might go for - what he has said is that he has done the scouting in advance...

what I suspect he means is something entirely uncontroversial and normal - that he has concluded a programmed period of planned proactive scouting - but that (as usual) if there are other deals to be done then (of course) he will look at them.

I, for one, am quite glad he is looking in markets we haven't exploited or ages... to do so - you have to do it when their leagues are playing and in advance to get a head start...

I realise this doesn't help the dougie is an insane, clueless moron argument (sorry!) - but - hey - not everything that he does or says has to be forced to fit that particular mould...

[StaffsTrotter]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

Eagles played his absolutely best towards the end of last season, during the run-in, was excellent. Freedman was the manager then, still is. I mean I, along with everyone else felt a new manager would get better out of our players than Coyle did. And it did for a while, but then we've reverted back. I think we've got too many players who fail to take responsibility and would rather blame everyone else, the manager, the fans etc.

And I don't like giving them an excuse.

If they've played below the levels we expect for a while, you accept that because form dips etc. If they've done it consistently and repeatedly for long periods under different managers, then either they aren't as good as we or they think, or they have the wrong attitude.

Who said anything about not blaming players?

If I recall, Eagles played fairly well when he was consistently in the side. How anyone is expected to play well when they are used inconsistently. How is anyone supposed to be motivated when playing well consistently often results in being dropped. Eagles doesn't get off scot free with me (I've been fairly critical of him in his time here), but I doubt the lad knows whether he is coming or going this season.

It isn't all Dougie's fault, like it isn't all Coyle's fault. Something isn't right when so many players are performing below their ability. Personally I think the selection lottery has contributed to this.

Eagles was left out of the side after playing consistently badly this season (who is that the fault of?). Then got injured.

Absolute bollocks. AT got it pretty much spot on in his assessment. Can't be arsed looking but I seem to remember flagging a post match interview with Eagles earlyish in the season, where he was talking about being told that he wouldn't be picked for away games - in other words it didn't matter how he played in matches or training. It was during one of the debates about advance picking of teams ...........
Eagles showed enough during his time with us in the prem and last season when he carried us for half a season, to show he can perform at this level.
If he is being paid a fortune as well, it makes it even more of a piss poor call by your beloved leader. But then again I suppose we have to find room for 5 central midfielders

[thebish]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

to be fair, though - it is kinda what you consistently and repeatedly said about Coyle - even when gently challenged (by me")

[BWFC_Insane]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

to be fair, though - it is kinda what you consistently and repeatedly said about Coyle - even when gently challenged (by me")

Absolutely. As I've said I expected the players to perform better under different management, and as I said they did for a while. They have in many cases simply reverted back to where they were.

But this notion that Eagles being piss poor this season is down to the manager is silly. Dougie takes the blame for the collective, absolutely, in the same way that Coyle did. But individual players here over the past few seasons have (IMO) consistently looked for excuses rather than taking responsibility and it is a trend that continues.

I wouldn't mind so much if people then gave the manager the credit for the huge improvement in Mills or Bogdan (or according to some people, less so me, Ream).

But he gets no credit for that but all the blame for Lee being terrible for two seasons, Eagles wildly inconsistent and NGog and Sordell being absolute wasters stealing a wage here.....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dougie's latest "genius" statement in todays BEN is that "the club is now scouting for players for next Jan's transfer window in Australia, Switzerland and Norway as the clubs stats show thats where the best value for money players are"????
He also goes on to say that the club "finished scouting for players for this summers transfer window at the end of Feb"?????

Now I may sound stupid here, but surely how can you decide in Feb, which players you want to go for in the summer? Does that mean he's not going to look at anybody who may become available after Feb if he's not already scouted them???

Yeah, that's bizarre. Sounds smug, and counterintuitive: not only could (as you say) new players become available, but old "approved" ones could hit terrible form, or previously rejected ones show a marked improvement.

I don't think his quotes rule out looking at players becoming available... he has not said that he has closed the list of players he might go for - what he has said is that he has done the scouting in advance...

what I suspect he means is something entirely uncontroversial and normal - that he has concluded a programmed period of planned proactive scouting - but that (as usual) if there are other deals to be done then (of course) he will look at them.

Hmm... that may well be what he means but it isn't really what he's said:

We’ve already identified what we are doing this summer. It sounds strange but we’re viewing matches right now, especially abroad, for the January market. We stopped at the end of February looking at the current window and right now we’re looking to next year and where we’re going.

(Nothing at all wrong with looking at new markets - oh for a Per Frandsen - but slightly odd to broadcast it)

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑↑ I've said on a number of occasions that he should simply stop making statements as he always makes himself sound foolish. It's his "look how clever, methodical and deep I am" stuff.

[boltonboris]

It's his own fault.. If he'd learn to run properly, he'd be on 20 goals this season

[StaffsTrotter]

Eagles has under performed. Most people would suggest he has been an above average performer in this division throughout his career. Is it possible that he is under performing because managers aren't/haven't gotten the best or even average out of him? He might be a bit of a squad filler/bencher above this level, but something is wrong if he can't perform in a mid table Championship side, given he's made a career out of that before he got to us.

I think it is a cop out to say "can't blame players for underperforming, must be the managers fault".

to be fair, though - it is kinda what you consistently and repeatedly said about Coyle - even when gently challenged (by me")

Absolutely. As I've said I expected the players to perform better under different management, and as I said they did for a while. They have in many cases simply reverted back to where they were.

But this notion that Eagles being piss poor this season is down to the manager is silly. Dougie takes the blame for the collective, absolutely, in the same way that Coyle did. But individual players here over the past few seasons have (IMO) consistently looked for excuses rather than taking responsibility and it is a trend that continues.

I wouldn't mind so much if people then gave the manager the credit for the huge improvement in Mills or Bogdan (or according to some people, less so me, Ream).

But he gets no credit for that but all the blame for Lee being terrible for two seasons, Eagles wildly inconsistent and NGog and Sordell being absolute wasters stealing a wage here.....

They're all good players - they have to be to be where they are. The managers job is to work with what he's got and get the best out of them individually and collectively.It would be churlish to mention that Mills & Ream were being pushed out and Ngog & Eagles were to be the fulcrum of our attack, at the start of the season. To me its telling that - no-one on here can think of a player of the season - have all our players really become that bad.

A players performance is determined by a lot of variables - the players own form and fitness, the teamates he's selected with, the position they are asked to play (in or out of position), the system the team is asked to play (whether it suits their game) and the opposition. Out of those which does a player control, providing of course he actually gets on the park in the first place, and which does a manager ? The newspaper article which I think started the 'my way' thread was instigated by comments from dougie which suggested he'd given short shrift to players with opinions just because they'd played in the PL. If they can't even voice opinions without fear of being ostracised then they really are fecked.

You want DF to get credit for an individuals improved form. It may well be down to him, but I'd like some corroborative info - has any player in the last 18 months, gone on record about how they enjoy training or behind the scenes stuff or how its helped their game ?.

In short, the balance of plaudits/ blame sit with the manager. It might be an impossible job, but thats the job.

[bobo the clown]

... this notion that Eagles being piss poor this season is down to the manager is silly. Dougie takes the blame for the collective, absolutely, in the same way that Coyle did. But individual players here over the past few seasons have (IMO) consistently looked for excuses rather than taking responsibility and it is a trend that continues.

I wouldn't mind so much if people then gave the manager the credit for the huge improvement in Mills or Bogdan (or according to some people, less so me, Ream).

But he gets no credit for that but all the blame for Lee being terrible for two seasons, Eagles wildly inconsistent and NGog and Sordell being absolute wasters stealing a wage here.....

I'm not sure he gets any blame for Lee's long-term demise. Not even for Eagles inconsistency. But he CAN be finger-pointed at for suggesting he was going to use N'Gog and Eagles as the fulcrum of everything and then not following through in Eagles case. He never really got the chance to let him down.

Hey, maybe his attitude has been poor, maybe he's trained really badly. We don't know, but nothing like that has been rumoured.

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

He CAN be blamed for choosing Zat Knight as his team captain. Bless him, he tries and his later season performances have been pretty good, but we ALL knew he wasn't right for that responsibility.

He's not the devil incarnate but he could just help himself now & again.

[thebish]

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

could he perhaps be congratulated for turning a player you once described as "not a footballer" into one you now describe as one of our two best defenders?

[bobo the clown]

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

could he perhaps be congratulated for turning a player you once described as "not a footballer" into one you now describe as one of our two best defenders?

True .... & I readily admit to that ... & it seemed DF agreed with me back last summer.

For helping him turn that around he deserved some credit. Well done Dougie .... a bit .... maybe.

[thebish]

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

could he perhaps be congratulated for turning a player you once described as "not a footballer" into one you now describe as one of our two best defenders?

True .... & I readily admit to that ... & it seemed DF agreed with me back last summer.

For helping him turn that around he deserved some credit. Well done Dougie .... a bit .... maybe.

[Prufrock]

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

could he perhaps be congratulated for turning a player you once described as "not a footballer" into one you now describe as one of our two best defenders?

True .... & I readily admit to that ... & it seemed DF agreed with me back last summer.

For helping him turn that around he deserved some credit. Well done Dougie .... a bit .... maybe.

Can we quote you on that ?

[bobo the clown]

He CAN be blamed for almost forcing both Ream and Mills out of the door yet them turning out to be possibly our two best defenders.

could he perhaps be congratulated for turning a player you once described as "not a footballer" into one you now describe as one of our two best defenders?

True .... & I readily admit to that ... & it seemed DF agreed with me back last summer.

For helping him turn that around he deserved some credit. Well done Dougie .... a bit .... maybe.

Can we quote you on that ?

... maybe .... a bit.