The Great Art Debate

[Lost Leopard Spot]

oops I've broken the internet and I'm not even in Bracknell. (How do I resize that fecker, TD?)

[TANGODANCER]

This art thread is a bit fiery

Indeed. Good, isn't it?

[TANGODANCER]

oops I've broken the internet and I'm not even in Bracknell. (How do I resize that fecker, TD?)

Just delete the other one now.

[Worthy4England]

It's too late. My work laptop has already lost connection - the internet is broked.

[Prufrock]

Not my taste, but TD raves about Jane Austen because of the way it speaks of the culture at the time.

Again, not true: I enjoy Jane Austen's works but only Pride and Prejudice really grabs me and "Raves about it" is a bit over the top. It's a social commentary and a historical diary of the times indeed, also a decent story with humour being a prime consideration rather than the plot which is pretty weak and as a love story it's a non-starter. I'm no Janeite (hey, I even got banned from a J.A site for claiming she promoted the feminine angle a little too much), I just enjoy it for what it is.

It wasn't meant to be a dig. I didn't think 'raves' was unfair from what I remember, though perhaps only for P&P. Certainly there was passion in there. It's a good thing!

[TANGODANCER]

Not my taste, but TD raves about Jane Austen because of the way it speaks of the culture at the time.

Again, not true: I enjoy Jane Austen's works but only Pride and Prejudice really grabs me and "Raves about it" is a bit over the top. It's a social commentary and a historical diary of the times indeed, also a decent story with humour being a prime consideration rather than the plot which is pretty weak and as a love story it's a non-starter. I'm no Janeite (hey, I even got banned from a J.A site for claiming she promoted the feminine angle a little too much), I just enjoy it for what it is.

It wasn't meant to be a dig. I didn't think 'raves' was unfair from what I remember, though perhaps only for P&P. Certainly there was passion in there. It's a good thing!

Oh, I'm full of passion, me. Well, maybe up to ten years back....

[Prufrock]

So much so you almost convinced me to have another go at it. Not quite, like, but almost.

[TANGODANCER]

So much so you almost convinced me to have another go at it. Not quite, like, but almost.

Do so. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennet are interesting, but Mr and Mrs Bennet and Lady Catherine de Bourgh are well worthy of some attention. I loved the ridiculous Reverend Collins who's the real star for me, possibly helped by David Bamber's brilliant portrayal of him in the B.B.C series.

[Prufrock]

I hope that I will do one day TD. Maybe as I get older I'll enjoy it more. If currently got a 'reading list' of 140 odd books though, so nothing new is going on for a bit!

[thebish]

It seems blindingly obvious to me that with Emin's background, the words 'trust me' are more than just 'saying something'; that's someone who has something to say. I didn't know that until I read Crayons' piece, and without that knowledge, it's just a neon sign, but I still think any definition of art which limits it to only pretty things, or 'stuff that I like' is sterile, wrong, and tragically closed-off.

yes. spot on.

I happen to think you can admire both and you don't have to choose. I can like decorative art and i can admire skillful draughtsmanship... lots of artwork I have seen is fantastically skilled in its execution - and I can marvel at the skill it took to make it..

there's a fairly famous drawing of the face of Jesus that is made in one single unbroken line starting at the tip of his nose and then varying in thickness spirals out to the edge of the page..

it is staggeringly skillful and I can utterly marvel at the effort and technique required to do that.

BUT... the result doesn't really strike me as what I'd call "great art" - it doesn't move me or challenge me beyond thinking - blimey, how did he do that...

[thebish]

I couldn't give a stuff about the attention-seeking whore, or her life, or her pathetic bits of tat that she proffers as look-at-me art. I find her and the whole thing offensive.

I can understand you not liking it - but struggle to understand why she makes you angry enough to call her a "whore" and describe not only her work but her herself as "offensive"...

why are you so offended by it? is it that she makes money out of it? I don't get why she appears to make you so angry!

she does stuff - you don't like it/get it - so what? she hasn't stuck it up in your sitting room or owt, has she?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

It seems blindingly obvious to me that with Emin's background, the words 'trust me' are more than just 'saying something'; that's someone who has something to say. I didn't know that until I read Crayons' piece, and without that knowledge, it's just a neon sign, but I still think any definition of art which limits it to only pretty things, or 'stuff that I like' is sterile, wrong, and tragically closed-off.

yes. spot on.

I happen to think you can admire both and you don't have to choose. I can like decorative art and i can admire skillful draughtsmanship... lots of artwork I have seen is fantastically skilled in its execution - and I can marvel at the skill it took to make it..

there's a fairly famous drawing of the face of Jesus that is made in one single unbroken line starting at the tip of his nose and then varying in thickness spirals out to the edge of the page..

it is staggeringly skillful and I can utterly marvel at the effort and technique required to do that.

BUT... the result doesn't really strike me as what I'd call "great art" - it doesn't move me or challenge me beyond thinking - blimey, how did he do that...

That's shit that is. Looks nothing like him...

[Bruce Rioja]

I couldn't give a stuff about the attention-seeking whore, or her life, or her pathetic bits of tat that she proffers as look-at-me art. I find her and the whole thing offensive.

I can understand you not liking it - but struggle to understand why she makes you angry enough to call her a "whore" and describe not only her work but her herself as "offensive"...

why are you so offended by it? is it that she makes money out of it? I don't get why she appears to make you so angry!

she does stuff - you don't like it/get it - so what? she hasn't stuck it up in your sitting room or owt, has she?

I'm perfectly happy with my description thanks, Bish. I'm sure Tracy Emin's also happy to mug people off with her basic neon sign, various bits of childlike scribble and so on.

[thebish]

I couldn't give a stuff about the attention-seeking whore, or her life, or her pathetic bits of tat that she proffers as look-at-me art. I find her and the whole thing offensive.

I can understand you not liking it - but struggle to understand why she makes you angry enough to call her a "whore" and describe not only her work but her herself as "offensive"...

why are you so offended by it? is it that she makes money out of it? I don't get why she appears to make you so angry!

she does stuff - you don't like it/get it - so what? she hasn't stuck it up in your sitting room or owt, has she?

I'm perfectly happy with my description thanks, Bish. I'm sure Tracy Emin's also happy to mug people off with her basic neon sign, various bits of childlike scribble and so on.

indeed, I get that and I wasn't asking you to change your description - i was just interested in why she makes you so angry! given such a strongly worded post - it interested me, that's all...

it's one thing not to get Emin and not to like her work... but your response is a whole other level - I was intrigue what it is about her that elicits that kind of viceral hatred... you're normally quite chilled and live-and-let-live in other kinds of discussion... that response kind of sticks out a bit!

[Prufrock]

I find it interesting the stick specifically Emin gets all round. I mean, Hirst is: more of a cock, has a less interesting back-story, does less interesting stuff, is more up his own arse and has made more money from the whole thing, yet he gets cuffed-dismissal and she gets vitriol. I'm always taken aback by the anger people have towards someone who, whether you like her or not, is clearly 'damaged' and doesn't appear to do a great deal of harm.

[thebish]

I find it interesting the stick specifically Emin gets all round. I mean, Hirst is: more of a cock, has a less interesting back-story, does less interesting stuff, is more up his own arse and has made more money from the whole thing, yet he gets cuffed-dismissal and she gets vitriol. I'm always taken aback by the anger people have towards someone who, whether you like her or not, is clearly 'damaged' and doesn't appear to do a great deal of harm.

my daughter would say it is a very typical kind of reaction to a woman who has been abused and won't shut up...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I find it interesting the stick specifically Emin gets all round. I mean, Hirst is: more of a cock, has a less interesting back-story, does less interesting stuff, is more up his own arse and has made more money from the whole thing, yet he gets cuffed-dismissal and she gets vitriol. I'm always taken aback by the anger people have towards someone who, whether you like her or not, is clearly 'damaged' and doesn't appear to do a great deal of harm.

my daughter would say it is a very typical kind of reaction to a woman who has been abused and won't shut up...

And I'd argue that the emphasis is on Emin and not Hirst, not because Hirst is more or less a cock, and certainly nothing to do with anybody being abused and not shutting up, but because strangely enough, it was her work and not Hirst's that was the opener to this little debate. And (I know I know: it's not all about me) if you carefully check back some of us detest her work but haven't uttered a single derogatory remark towards the 'artist' herself.

[Prufrock]

I don't mean specifically this thread LLS. She's been discussed here, so of course more likely to be commented on, but even when discussed separately or together she gets a level of personal stick he doesn't seem to.

[TANGODANCER]

And I'd argue that the emphasis is on Emin and not Hirst, not because Hirst is more or less a cock, and certainly nothing to do with anybody being abused and not shutting up, but because strangely enough, it was her work and not Hirst's that was the opener to this little debate. And (I know I know: it's not all about me) if you carefully check back some of us detest her work but haven't uttered a single derogatory remark towards the 'artist' herself.

I'm afraid I may be guilty of er, dislike, if you will. I'm not really into hating much or many, but she seems to have been singing the same song for a fair old while now, she's just gone upmarket from saying it in pen scribbles and needlework to neon lighting. Beyond her being in the public eye so much, (and yes, I've read her history), I know little of her as a person at all, not have any wish to. She'd probably feel the same about me.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I don't mean specifically this thread LLS. She's been discussed here, so of course more likely to be commented on, but even when discussed separately or together she gets a level of personal stick he doesn't seem to.

I shall right this wrong instantly
Hirst is an overweening cock. The small and utterly innocent calf the tw*at carved up had more talent in its little hoof than Hirst, the knobhead, is ever likely to possess. Moreover, the poor unassuming shark, despite being a cartiliginous fishy way down the evolutionary tree would, if it hadn't been sawn in half by the dick, have probably held more profound views on art than Hirst ever could - the tosser.
Balance restored, universe in harmony.