Freedman out!

[bobo the clown]

If you want to gauge the lethargy DF has created in the fans you only had to see how few fans stayed for the end of season, post match parade today. There is a real disconnect. He's clearly staying on, but he won't get much tolerance ect season if he's not getting performance AND results.

Are you sure people left solely because of the manager? I left before it, partly because I had to get to a family thing, but also because there aren't many players I wished to applaud for their efforts this season. Nowt to do with the manager.

Those players are his players Insanio. They come as a package.

For a game which, in real term, didn't matter there remained a good amount of bile at the man, his tactics, his team selection and his general manner today. Maybe your rose-tinters didn't let you see that.

[SmokinFrazier]

The end of season turnaround doesn't excuse the awful start and whilst results have been impressive, performances simply haven't.

There's plenty of talk about the financial situation we're in, the sort of players we can attract and so on, but however valid those comments may be, it doesn't even begin to explain or excuse the amount of terrible performances from our team. Even when we win, we play such unconvincing football, I've probably been impressed with us a handful of times in all the time that Freedman has been here, and we've played some really poor teams in that time too. We just aren't capable of beating teams in impressive fashion and ever game is unnecessarily dogged and tough.

When we first hired Freedman, there was talk about how he was defensive minded and would improve our defence...but he hasn't, at all. Yeah, he's got a negative mindset but the defensive set up at times is really poor and indicates a clear lack of direction. Do you ever look at our players defending and think they know how to hold a line or to close people down? Or know where their teammates are? They clearly don't. The players still don't press the opposition anywhere near enough, especially when they're just outside our box and that's been a constant source of goals for teams when playing us, yet nothing ever changes. Poor performances are excusable, as are bad results but to not improve a defence in so many really basic ways after being a manager for nearly 100 games is very poor. We're no better defensively now than we have been in the last few seasons but because we defend deep and play poorer quality teams, the amount of goals we concede doesn't reflect how bad we are in this area. There's no structure or planning to our defence at all.

Going forward it's even worse and we're always such an uncoordinated team. I made a post the other day mentioning I think the squad is suited to 4-5-1 and a few people picked me up on that because I've always talked about 4-4-2 being more effective, but the reason I've argued for 4-4-2 is because it's obviously a more effective system with Freedman as our manager. 4-5-1 doesn't work under Freedman but the sort of players we have should be more suited to playing that way. The problem is though, Freedman can't set a team up to play with a lone striker and when we've seen it in the past, supply to him has been extremely limited but because of the wingers and strength in midfield we have, our squad should be more suited to a lone striker and a number 10. That would work under a different manager but it's not going to happen whilst Freedman is here because he's incapable of getting the best out of that system. 4-4-2 is simple because you can play four workhorses in midfield and two lumps up front and without any tactical knowledge, it'll get decent enough results.

But that's the sort of limitation that Freedman imposes on us, whether it's because of lack of managerial ability or just his inherently negative personality. We should be a team who has Hall, Chungy or Eagles out wide, playing quick passes and through balls, constantly looking to get in behind a defence, having our wing backs overlapping to stretch the defence, or getting the ball to Moritz or Davies, getting them to link up with a striker and drive into the box. Instead, we just play the same dull, predictable football without any sort of cutting edge. Coyle had plenty of flaws but at least he could set a side up to attack. Freedman can't.

I'm very much anti-Freedman but I like his ideas about bringing young players through and if he has to work around budgets because of FFP, that's fine. I could excuse poor results for a few seasons and still support the manager as long as I thought we were going somewhere but whilst Freedman says all the right things, the performances are appallingly bad and that's why I can't support him as our manager. No matter what is going on off the pitch, nothing excuses the awful football we play. How can any of us have faith in a manager who quite obviously isn't capable of producing the results on the pitch? And by results, I don't mean scraping a 2-1 in a game you deserve to lose, I mean that even in losses, playing like a unit with direction and a plan. You see more coordination in a 'Zidane's 11 vs. C-list celebrities' charity game than you do watching us under Freedman.

We chose the wrong person by appointing Freedman and it disappoints me that he'll be here next season despite every clear sign pointing to him having a negative effect on the club. Results will get worse, performances can't get worse but will continue to be woeful, the quality players we have will leave and why? When you pick a team to win a game and they go 4-0 down, you don't put another bet on it because the in-play odds are 100-1, you accept you've messed up and look to the next bet when you can recover your losses. Even if Freedman has a tough job because of financial limitations, he's not capable of improving performances on the pitch and that's what matters the most to me as a fan and for the clubs progression.

[Worthy4England]

If you want to gauge the lethargy DF has created in the fans you only had to see how few fans stayed for the end of season, post match parade today. There is a real disconnect. He's clearly staying on, but he won't get much tolerance ect season if he's not getting performance AND results.

I buggered off with 6 minutes to play, and still didn't get to the pub until after you chaps. Did you leave at half time?

[jaffka]

I was that lethargic I didn't even go.

[officer_dibble]

Piss poor season.

He gets 10 games from me next season. 15 point target.

[a1]

dont know where this bollocks is that coyle knew how to set a team up to attack , but freedman still carnt set a defensive team up comes from.

think yesterday was the first time we've conceded two goals for ages, if not it seemed so.

the arse end of coyles reign it seemed like we got beat 3-1 a lot. although 'arse end' were probably about 14 months long because of his hypno-powers.

i think they conceded on purpose to give folk booing practice for next season, dont know what they'll do if we win loads.

[Norpig]

Next season, for me each season everybody starts with a clean slate, I make my mind up as the season progresses. I have no expectations at this moment, I with others on here he has got ten games with his team to prove to me if he has revived our fortunes. f we are playing to a plan and players look like they want to play for him and it looks like we are heading in the right direction I am willing to give him until Christmas. I don't agree with setting points targets, we may have a good start scrape a few wins and still look clueless if this is the case I would still want this fella out.

[Tombwfc]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

[TKIZ!]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

[Tombwfc]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

Statistically Kenny Jackett is better than Mourinho and Ross McCormack is better than Wayne Rooney.

[TKIZ!]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

Statistically Kenny Jackett is better than Mourinho and Ross McCormack is better than Wayne Rooney.

I'm not talking about Jackett/Mourinho/Rooney/McCormack. I'm talking about what's relevant to BWFC. He might not be a lot of people's cup of tea but this is the realistic arena that we have to operate in for now.

[SmokinFrazier]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

Winning 33% (Coyle) of games in the Premier League is tougher than winning 35% in the Championship. Freedman has a better win percentage but we aren't up against world class players every week and if we were, our winning percentage would be less than 20%.

[BWFC_Insane]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

Expectations have nowt to do with whether he keeps his job or not. The only thing that matters in that respect is whether he meets whatever objectives Eddie Davies sets for him.

Very naive to suggest he will stay in a job because of some voodoo like expectation lowering....

[TKIZ!]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

Winning 33% (Coyle) of games in the Premier League is tougher than winning 35% in the Championship. Freedman has a better win percentage but we aren't up against world class players every week and if we were, our winning percentage would be less than 20%.

Not all of those 33% were in the PL though, were they? He had at least 10-15 games in the Championship

[Bruce Rioja]

I'll tell you what I'd like to know - how many games, like yesterday's, has Freedman elected to to bang on an extra defender only for it to prove counter productive? It doesn't work but he insists on doing it. Against Wigan if it wasn't for Bogdan we'd have lost from winning position in a game in which we were always on top.

[Worthy4England]

I still feel he's going to be for a while yet. Even if we're sat in 12th after 10 games he'll say it's an improvement over the last two seasons and if we finish the same way we finished those... and people will lap it up. And there will be at least one player injured or who we don't sign that would've absolutely definitely made the whole thing click.

He's lowered expectations to the point his previous shitness will keep him in a job

He's statistically better than the last three managers (Lee, Megson and Coyle), that's fact. With this being the ast season of his contract if he doesn't perform then I'd happily see him gone.

Winning 33% (Coyle) of games in the Premier League is tougher than winning 35% in the Championship. Freedman has a better win percentage but we aren't up against world class players every week and if we were, our winning percentage would be less than 20%.

Why is it tougher to win 33% of games in the Prem, on the budget Coyle had?

[a1]

I'll tell you what I'd like to know - how many games, like yesterday's, has Freedman elected to to bang on an extra defender only for it to prove counter productive? It doesn't work but he insists on doing it. Against Wigan if it wasn't for Bogdan we'd have lost from winning position in a game in which we were always on top.

the other team(s) attack more when theyre losing, tho, it could be argued that if they do nowt and concede 3 more 'they shouldve shoved a defender on' or whatever. he put knight on in the birmingham away game and we won that.

its like theyre doing this betting arbitrage thing with players fitness and results . no one was arsed when allardyce did it. it got us promoted then saved us from relegation a few times.

subbing muamba only works 10% of the time, though.

if it were that low , i'd notice it .

prozone or pingpong. i know which i'd use.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll tell you what I'd like to know - how many games, like yesterday's, has Freedman elected to to bang on an extra defender only for it to prove counter productive? It doesn't work but he insists on doing it. Against Wigan if it wasn't for Bogdan we'd have lost from winning position in a game in which we were always on top.

Personally I thought against Wigan and yesterday we were struggling at the back before Freedman brought the extra player on.

He's brought extra defenders on more times when we've seen out a result than when we've failed.

The way Birmingham pushed forwards towards the end I don't think many managers wouldn't have thrown Zat on to help out aerially. Allardyce for example, would have done the same. Nailed on.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I'll tell you what I'd like to know - how many games, like yesterday's, has Freedman elected to to bang on an extra defender only for it to prove counter productive? It doesn't work but he insists on doing it. Against Wigan if it wasn't for Bogdan we'd have lost from winning position in a game in which we were always on top.

Personally I thought against Wigan and yesterday we were struggling at the back before Freedman brought the extra player on.

He's brought extra defenders on more times when we've seen out a result than when we've failed.

The way Birmingham pushed forwards towards the end I don't think many managers wouldn't have thrown Zat on to help out aerially. Allardyce for example, would have done the same. Nailed on.

My thoughts were that their lanky bugger was getting on the end of crosses quite a bit (though doing nowt with them) and Zat was brought on to counter that. Whether he did or not is another matter, but I could see why you might do it.

Still, he brought Zat on. Boooooooo. Dougie out

[BWFC_Insane]

I'll tell you what I'd like to know - how many games, like yesterday's, has Freedman elected to to bang on an extra defender only for it to prove counter productive? It doesn't work but he insists on doing it. Against Wigan if it wasn't for Bogdan we'd have lost from winning position in a game in which we were always on top.

Personally I thought against Wigan and yesterday we were struggling at the back before Freedman brought the extra player on.

He's brought extra defenders on more times when we've seen out a result than when we've failed.

The way Birmingham pushed forwards towards the end I don't think many managers wouldn't have thrown Zat on to help out aerially. Allardyce for example, would have done the same. Nailed on.

My thoughts were that their lanky bugger was getting on the end of crosses quite a bit (though doing nowt with them) and Zat was brought on to counter that. Whether he did or not is another matter, but I could see why you might do it.

Still, he brought Zat on. Boooooooo. Dougie out

The way the game was set up I felt we defended ok broadly at the end. We did enough to stay solid and in doing so create two breaks we should have killed the game off from. Having not done that one ball into the box with all the numbers the had in there and their sense of need was always possibly going to just break for them, which it did.