Today I'm neither Angry nor Happy about....

[Prufrock]

Is there any real difference in the taste of chicken, between throat slitting, or that well-known traditional chicken disposal method of neck-wringing that's been going on since Adam was a lad? Just wondering?

It's not about the taste, it's (for some people at least) about animal welfare. There is a massive difference between the suffering of animals which are conscious when their throats are slit vs those which are stunned before they are killed. The idea that they fall painlessly unconscious within seconds is utter bollocks. However, the simple argument against the fuss raised this time is that the animals *have* been stunned as have 88% of all halal slaughtered animals inc 100% chickens.

I think both sides of this current debate are wrong though, because I've read Medhi Hassan, a man whose opinion I massively respect, trying to argue that only vegetarians can have complaints about animal welfare. Firstly, he surely means vegans, and secondly, that's utter nonsense. The idea that it's only intellectually consistent, if you eat meat, to not give any shit about how the animals are treated is ridiculous. People are clearly welcome to their own beliefs, but a belief that the animals one eats ought to have suffered as little as possible is not in and of itself contradictory.

Er, yes, quite. I was making the point that without knowing which method was used on the plate of roast chicken you're tucking into, who would ask? How many people would be able to kill a chicken/any animal, that we regularly smack our lips over before taking a knife and fork to it?
People living on farms have had to do that regularly since time immemorial, so animal welfare is fine in as much as it's possible. I don't have religious beliefs regarding food, nor do I believe in any form of cruelty to anyone. anything living, but neither do I ask for the store manager to find out my dinner's history before buying it. Some folk do, fair enough. Two of my daughters are fierce vegetarians and think meat eating is for savages....guess I'm a savage then.

Thing is, I'll wager that the majority of those who are expressing "outrage" about Halal meats would be equally as outraged were it Muslim belief that animals shouldn't be consumed and only shopped in places where no meat was present. Those very same people would be citing their right to eat meat and kill animals rather than being concerned over animal welfare.

I think the argument that everyone who eats meat should kill an animal etc is absolutely ridiculous. Most adults who eat meat are broadly aware of how it arrives on their plate. Even if they aren't I don't particularly think many don't realise that the lamb chop they are tucking into was once a wooly four legged creature gaily skipping round a meadow or whatever. It is absolute nonsense to suggest that people who eat meat should experience the process of slaughtering and butchering animals. Should everyone who eats an egg have to try laying one? Should everyone who eats a carrot have to grow one? No. People should be free to decide what they believe and consume whatever that may be.

Where businesses feel that they can make money serving Halal meat I really do not see the issue. If the Muslim population in those areas make up the bulk of their customer base then so be it. As long as it is clear what people are being offered to buy I have no issue. Choice.

As I say, I'm keen to make sure that people who have valid concerns about non-stunned slaughter aren't lumped in with those out to bash Muslims, but yeah, that^. My favourite bit is that the headline in the Sun was 'Halal Secret of Pizza Express'. It was so much of a secret that Pizza Express had the fact stuck up on their FAQ page ffs!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

The fact that much of the meat served up in these places is reclaimed chemical shite doesn't seem to bother them says it all.

[Prufrock]

I've read Medhi Hassan, a man whose opinion I massively respect

Urgh, really?

You're surprised?! I thought you might have come around to him by now, Guardian boy

He's one of those overly partisan tw*ts I would have thought might annoy you - also guilty of overreaching himself all the time, as on the issue you have highlighted.

I've never found him particularly 'partisan', at least not in the sense that it irritates me which is 'Team' politics. He fecking hates Tony Blair and is often critical of Labour in general. I dunno, I often disagree with him, but this halal issue is one of the few where I don't feel like it's been worth reading his opinion anyway.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I've read Medhi Hassan, a man whose opinion I massively respect

Urgh, really?

You're surprised?! I thought you might have come around to him by now, Guardian boy

He's one of those overly partisan tw*ts I would have thought might annoy you - also guilty of overreaching himself all the time, as on the issue you have highlighted.

I've never found him particularly 'partisan', at least not in the sense that it irritates me which is 'Team' politics. He fecking hates Tony Blair and is often critical of Labour in general. I dunno, I often disagree with him, but this halal issue is one of the few where I don't feel like it's been worth reading his opinion anyway.

I don't mean for Labour necessarily... just in the neo-socialist elite with Owen Jones etc.

[Bruce Rioja]

Is there any real difference in the taste of chicken, between throat slitting, or that well-known traditional chicken disposal method of neck-wringing that's been going on since Adam was a lad? Just wondering?

Yes - One tastes 'a bit like rabbit'.

[LeverEnd]

The Sun is a joke and that headline sums up the kind of sensationalist shite they peddle. A mate of mine had a rant about 'religious minorities dictating to the majority' which isn't the case with stunned halal slaughter. It makes no difference to non-muslims. I asked him if he was going to boycott all the muslim-run takeaway outlets he frequents when pissed and it hadn't occurred to him they might also be halal. I suspect he won't.

The thing that started all this recent debate was the Subway issue however, which I do object to. I rarely eat there, but when I do I order the chicken and bacon ranch wrap. Apparently I can't order this in many of their outlets because they have pulled all pork products to appease muslims in certain areas, possibly orthodox jews too, I don't know.

[bwfcdan94]

You're surprised?! I thought you might have come around to him by now, Guardian boy [/quote]

He's one of those overly partisan tw*ts I would have thought might annoy you - also guilty of overreaching himself all the time, as on the issue you have highlighted.[/quote]

I've never found him particularly 'partisan', at least not in the sense that it irritates me which is 'Team' politics. He fecking hates Tony Blair and is often critical of Labour in general. I dunno, I often disagree with him, but this halal issue is one of the few where I don't feel like it's been worth reading his opinion anyway.[/quote]

I don't mean for Labour necessarily... just in the neo-socialist elite with Owen Jones etc.[/quote]

Do you hate Owen Jones?

[BWFC_Insane]

Owen Jones should be everyone's hero......

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Owen Jones should be everyone's hero......

... and if that doesn't put you off, nothing will!

[Dujon]

I have no idea as to whether this is authoritative or otherwise but it's interesting reading:
http://www.quran-islam.org/articles/hal ... 56%29.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To me it seems to say:
Don't eat carrion.
When you do eat say 'grace' before tucking in.

[Bruce Rioja]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

[Beefheart]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

[Bruce Rioja]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

[Beefheart]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

To be honest, I'm never going to go to Glastonbury so they can book whoever they want. I just find it quite obnoxius that a band can't accept that people might just not give a shit about them!

[Gary the Enfield]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

To be honest, I'm never going to go to Glastonbury so they can book whoever they want. I just find it quite obnoxius that a band can't accept that people might just not give a shit about them!

I don't think they'll miss you whilst counting the profits from their 130 million album sales.

I don't give a shiny shite about Glastonbury either but at least the story got Metallica played on Radio 2 this morning.

[Bruce Rioja]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

To be honest, I'm never going to go to Glastonbury so they can book whoever they want. I just find it quite obnoxius that a band can't accept that people might just not give a shit about them!

I don't think they'll miss you whilst counting the profits from their 130 million album sales.

I don't give a shiny shite about Glastonbury either but at least the story got Metallica played on Radio 2 this morning.

I like to watch from the comfort of the sofa. I was less than impressed when JZ and then Beyonce were announced as headliners, but at least I'd heard some of their stuff.

[Prufrock]

Blencathra's up for a sale. I want it, but cannot afford the £1.75million. Shit.

There's a certain young fullback who should buy it!

http://www.hhland.co.uk/blencathra/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Il Pirate]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

Dear, oh dear, oh feckin' dear.......................................(But then you think slf are good......)

[Worthy4England]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

Dear, oh dear, oh feckin' dear.......................................(But then you think slf are good......)

Reasonable question. There'll already be plenty of pop music on. Motorhead would liven it up a bit.

[Bruce Rioja]

Metallica headlining Glasto.

Apparently one of them has come out and said that people 'either love them or hate them', but is exactly my reaction to the idea of Metallica.

Would Motorhead not have held greater appeal, or is it all about selling it to the Yanks now?

Dear, oh dear, oh feckin' dear.......................................(But then you think slf are good......)

Sorry, was my very straightforward question a little difficult for you?