Dead Deadline Day

[TANGODANCER]

The sad thing is, if he came out and said something like this: "I've been told to batten down the hatches and do my best to keep us in this division with the aim, in 3-5 years time, of building a young team, capable of challenging for promotion" - then I, and quite a few others on this forum, would be willing to support him and wait it out.

Call my cynical if you will, but the chances of that happening are remote to say the least. I'm in the "If they're good enough, they're old enough" camp. We have young players already who do well at reserve and under twenty-one level. Why wait three years? It's now, remembering we're propping the Championship league up right now, that we need players to stand up and play for Bolton. As soon as they show any star qualities, agents will be touting them to the big money clubs.

[Tombwfc]

Yes but when required Megson did the business, we needed to beat Sunderland at home(his first season) we did, under Coyle we had to go to a mid table Stoke team with nothing(absolutely nothing) to play of and what happened, we can talk about the ifs and buts but the point is we didn't get the win we needed, both of our goals were extremely fortunate(as were theirs). Coyle having just relegated Bolton wanderers was then handed a perfect start, perfect because it gave us the opportunity to stamp or authority on the championship at hi old club, a place where he is hated, we started the season as favourites to be promoted with most of our Premiership side intact and we lost, when Coyle left we were struggling in the bottom half of the table, we had dropped about 20 places in the football league during his tenure, much further than we have under Freedman and if you recall when Megson was sacked we were in pretty much the same position as where we were when he started. Dougie has got a long way to go if he is fall into the same category as Coyle for me, if next season were struggling in league 1 then he will deserve to be there but as far as I'm concerned Coyle was comfortably the worst of our last 3 managerial appointments.

There's a lot of sense in what you say Dan, but what made Megson different and, ultimately worse, was he was strangling the soul of the club. Freedman for me falls between the two; he's got a tough job, no denying, but he shows little sign of being up to it.

The sad thing is, if he came out and said something like this: "I've been told to batten down the hatches and do my best to keep us in this division with the aim, in 3-5 years time, of building a young team, capable of challenging for promotion" - then I, and quite a few others on this forum, would be willing to support him and wait it out.

In that case, you (and those others) are either generous to a fault, or utterly deranged. What on earth is there to say he'd be capable of doing any of those things?

Anyway, good luck to Coyle if he get's it. He's still quite clearly not a bad human being. And to be fair, once again we are about to get absolutely nowhere near the tally of 11 points from the first 10 games which got him the bullet.

[William the White]

Yes but when required Megson did the business, we needed to beat Sunderland at home(his first season) we did, under Coyle we had to go to a mid table Stoke team with nothing(absolutely nothing) to play of and what happened, we can talk about the ifs and buts but the point is we didn't get the win we needed, both of our goals were extremely fortunate(as were theirs). Coyle having just relegated Bolton wanderers was then handed a perfect start, perfect because it gave us the opportunity to stamp or authority on the championship at hi old club, a place where he is hated, we started the season as favourites to be promoted with most of our Premiership side intact and we lost, when Coyle left we were struggling in the bottom half of the table, we had dropped about 20 places in the football league during his tenure, much further than we have under Freedman and if you recall when Megson was sacked we were in pretty much the same position as where we were when he started. Dougie has got a long way to go if he is fall into the same category as Coyle for me, if next season were struggling in league 1 then he will deserve to be there but as far as I'm concerned Coyle was comfortably the worst of our last 3 managerial appointments.

There's a lot of sense in what you say Dan, but what made Megson different and, ultimately worse, was he was strangling the soul of the club. Freedman for me falls between the two; he's got a tough job, no denying, but he shows little sign of being up to it.

The sad thing is, if he came out and said something like this: "I've been told to batten down the hatches and do my best to keep us in this division with the aim, in 3-5 years time, of building a young team, capable of challenging for promotion" - then I, and quite a few others on this forum, would be willing to support him and wait it out.

In partial support - if this scenario is the case (I think it is, or something like it) then an unusual honesty would be welcomed. But, for me, my confidence in DF is so low that my normal generosity of spirit and patience would be stretched...

My problem being that I don't understand what he is trying to get the team to do, or why he fecks around with it so much, what his system is, what his vision, what his 'first team'... It feels a mess, it looks a mess... And he looks like an error. I'd have Coyle back in preference, I really would. Though I'd prefer a new version of Rioch... In fact, I might even prefer Rioch now...

Potentially we have two more divisions to drop... We may have the manager to take us there...

[thebish]

when does this loan window slam open/shut?

[LeverEnd]

Like Tom says Coyle is a decent guy and I wish him well. Megson was an obnoxious nice person and I will always dislike him. I was one of his defenders initially and thought he got an unnecessarily hard time but in the end he deserved the abuse.
Freedman is not a bad bloke who seems to really want to do well, but he's just incapable.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Yes but when required Megson did the business, we needed to beat Sunderland at home(his first season) we did, under Coyle we had to go to a mid table Stoke team with nothing(absolutely nothing) to play of and what happened, we can talk about the ifs and buts but the point is we didn't get the win we needed, both of our goals were extremely fortunate(as were theirs). Coyle having just relegated Bolton wanderers was then handed a perfect start, perfect because it gave us the opportunity to stamp or authority on the championship at hi old club, a place where he is hated, we started the season as favourites to be promoted with most of our Premiership side intact and we lost, when Coyle left we were struggling in the bottom half of the table, we had dropped about 20 places in the football league during his tenure, much further than we have under Freedman and if you recall when Megson was sacked we were in pretty much the same position as where we were when he started. Dougie has got a long way to go if he is fall into the same category as Coyle for me, if next season were struggling in league 1 then he will deserve to be there but as far as I'm concerned Coyle was comfortably the worst of our last 3 managerial appointments.

There's a lot of sense in what you say Dan, but what made Megson different and, ultimately worse, was he was strangling the soul of the club. Freedman for me falls between the two; he's got a tough job, no denying, but he shows little sign of being up to it.

The sad thing is, if he came out and said something like this: "I've been told to batten down the hatches and do my best to keep us in this division with the aim, in 3-5 years time, of building a young team, capable of challenging for promotion" - then I, and quite a few others on this forum, would be willing to support him and wait it out.

In partial support - if this scenario is the case (I think it is, or something like it) then an unusual honesty would be welcomed. But, for me, my confidence in DF is so low that my normal generosity of spirit and patience would be stretched...

My problem being that I don't understand what he is trying to get the team to do, or why he fecks around with it so much, what his system is, what his vision, what his 'first team'... It feels a mess, it looks a mess... And he looks like an error. I'd have Coyle back in preference, I really would. Though I'd prefer a new version of Rioch... In fact, I might even prefer Rioch now...

Potentially we have two more divisions to drop... We may have the manager to take us there...

Where I'm at minus Coyle back.

[bobo the clown]

I think there's a bit of a myth about how nice a guy Coyle is/was. He was a nice guy compared to Megson ... but Himmler was a nice guy compared to Megson.

He was as willing to ostracise players as anyone else, often because he didn't like their lifestyles ... His born again Christianity dictated his attitudes, on the face of it a fair enough thing but not when it influences how you treat people under your command. His employment of his fat brother-in-law as kit man was pure nepotism and though he was (bad word, but you'll understand what I mean) lucky to be in charge when Muamba had his illness and it gave him the chance to look statesmanlike this was a guy he'd treated truly unfairly and Moo's book shows there was no love lost.

I'm not painting him as evil, but he was no Saint.

[Worthy4England]

Indeed - as bad as it is, I wouldn't want either of them back.

[Lord Kangana]

Is this really how bad things have become?

Its like harking back to Victorian values, conveniently forgetting the grinding poverty, incredibly high child mortality rates, slum housing, short life expectancy, the workhouse and general shitness of it all.

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑↑ yeah, what did the Victorian's do for us ?

Bring back the Romans !! They kept the trains on time at least.

[EverSoYouri]

Yes but when required Megson did the business, we needed to beat Sunderland at home(his first season) we did, under Coyle we had to go to a mid table Stoke team with nothing(absolutely nothing) to play of and what happened, we can talk about the ifs and buts but the point is we didn't get the win we needed, both of our goals were extremely fortunate(as were theirs). Coyle having just relegated Bolton wanderers was then handed a perfect start, perfect because it gave us the opportunity to stamp or authority on the championship at hi old club, a place where he is hated, we started the season as favourites to be promoted with most of our Premiership side intact and we lost, when Coyle left we were struggling in the bottom half of the table, we had dropped about 20 places in the football league during his tenure, much further than we have under Freedman and if you recall when Megson was sacked we were in pretty much the same position as where we were when he started. Dougie has got a long way to go if he is fall into the same category as Coyle for me, if next season were struggling in league 1 then he will deserve to be there but as far as I'm concerned Coyle was comfortably the worst of our last 3 managerial appointments.

There's a lot of sense in what you say Dan, but what made Megson different and, ultimately worse, was he was strangling the soul of the club. Freedman for me falls between the two; he's got a tough job, no denying, but he shows little sign of being up to it.

The sad thing is, if he came out and said something like this: "I've been told to batten down the hatches and do my best to keep us in this division with the aim, in 3-5 years time, of building a young team, capable of challenging for promotion" - then I, and quite a few others on this forum, would be willing to support him and wait it out.

In partial support - if this scenario is the case (I think it is, or something like it) then an unusual honesty would be welcomed. But, for me, my confidence in DF is so low that my normal generosity of spirit and patience would be stretched...

My problem being that I don't understand what he is trying to get the team to do, or why he fecks around with it so much, what his system is, what his vision, what his 'first team'... It feels a mess, it looks a mess... And he looks like an error. I'd have Coyle back in preference, I really would. Though I'd prefer a new version of Rioch... In fact, I might even prefer Rioch now...

Potentially we have two more divisions to drop... We may have the manager to take us there...

I think that's fair comment. My point was that come out with this kind of statement would (a) show that there was a plan and (b) show a willingness to try to get the fans on board.

You might say that's tantamount to hoping DF might turn out to be somebody he ain't. I'm not going to argue with that. In a sense my post was a forlorn 'if only' - since, despite fans from other clubs being confident Freedman will be next out the door, I wouldn't be surprised to see him hang on until it's too late.

As for the Coyle detractors - I haven't forgotten the utter, wonderful transformation of mood at the club and performance on the field, up until Johnny Thug Evans pretty much ended Holden's career. If only (yep, I know it's never going to happen) Coyle could learn to be more flexible in his tactics, he could be a very fine manager indeed.

[Hoboh]

Is this really how bad things have become?

Its like harking back to Victorian values, conveniently forgetting the grinding poverty, incredibly high child mortality rates, slum housing, short life expectancy, the workhouse and general shitness of it all.

No, that's the fault of the EU stupid

[Hoboh]

In footballing terms, none of the last four managers have been any cop, in fact the last three have all in their own way been pretty dire. Coyle was a stubborn dick, Freedmans a complete tool and Megson was the devil incarnate and a severe wanker.

[William the White]

I think there's a bit of a myth about how nice a guy Coyle is/was. He was a nice guy compared to Megson ... but Himmler was a nice guy compared to Megson.

He was as willing to ostracise players as anyone else, often because he didn't like their lifestyles ... His born again Christianity dictated his attitudes, on the face of it a fair enough thing but not when it influences how you treat people under your command. His employment of his fat brother-in-law as kit man was pure nepotism and though he was (bad word, but you'll understand what I mean) lucky to be in charge when Muamba had his illness and it gave him the chance to look statesmanlike this was a guy he'd treated truly unfairly and Moo's book shows there was no love lost.

I'm not painting him as evil, but he was no Saint.

I thought he was a Roman Catholic. Am I wrong?

[TANGODANCER]

I think there's a bit of a myth about how nice a guy Coyle is/was. He was a nice guy compared to Megson ... but Himmler was a nice guy compared to Megson.

He was as willing to ostracise players as anyone else, often because he didn't like their lifestyles ... His born again Christianity dictated his attitudes, on the face of it a fair enough thing but not when it influences how you treat people under your command. His employment of his fat brother-in-law as kit man was pure nepotism and though he was (bad word, but you'll understand what I mean) lucky to be in charge when Muamba had his illness and it gave him the chance to look statesmanlike this was a guy he'd treated truly unfairly and Moo's book shows there was no love lost.

I'm not painting him as evil, but he was no Saint.

I thought he was a Roman Catholic. Am I wrong?

Quite possible to be both belief wise.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

His religion has little to do with his ability as a football manager, but as the topic has been raised: Coyle isn't a born-again Christian, he was and always has been a Catholic – born in Glasgow to Irish immigrants who gave him the middle name Columba after the Irish saint credited with spreading Christianity in what we now call Scotland.

[bobo the clown]

His religion should have nothing to do with it .... it's Owen Cole who wears his more zealous for of Catholicism on his sleeve and takes a dim view of people whose lifestyles he doesn't approve of. Hence a couple of released players or dropped players

So, apologies, not "born again Christian.as in in-your-face evangelicism" more "zealous RC". Either way he made a thing about expecting high moral values none of which was relevant to the football pitch

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Who's Owen Cole? An indebted collier?

[bobo the clown]

Who's Owen Cole? An indebted collier?

Where's the mooning emoticon when I need it ?!?!?

[Tombwfc]

I think there's a bit of a myth about how nice a guy Coyle is/was. He was a nice guy compared to Megson ... but Himmler was a nice guy compared to Megson.

He was as willing to ostracise players as anyone else, often because he didn't like their lifestyles ... His born again Christianity dictated his attitudes, on the face of it a fair enough thing but not when it influences how you treat people under your command. His employment of his fat brother-in-law as kit man was pure nepotism and though he was (bad word, but you'll understand what I mean) lucky to be in charge when Muamba had his illness and it gave him the chance to look statesmanlike this was a guy he'd treated truly unfairly and Moo's book shows there was no love lost.

I'm not painting him as evil, but he was no Saint.

Unless you can elaborate further on him ostracising people due to his religion, I'm not sure any of that makes him a bad human being. He didn't rate Muamba, pissed off players he didn't play and got a family member a job (one that from what I saw, he was perfectly capable of). We've all done worse.