Freedman out!

[William the White]

Desperation. And understandable. He knows what is coming.

[TKIZ!]

He's a job based 'dead man walking' reading between the lines in that article. I'd rather we went with Jiminho/David Lee if we haven't got any money than listen to the balls he speaks. I've lost my rag with him now and it takes a lot as I'm very optimistic when it comes to BWFC.

He knows we need a striker, the fans know we need a striker. He signs Clayton and won't even put him on the bench.

Threlkeld, Kellett and Vela are all players that could come into the squad and yet he persists with these short term loans.

I despair!!

[SmokinFrazier]

I don't know why Clough hasn't been given a chance yet seeing as we're short on strikers. Yeah, he looks small and might be overpowered by Championship defenders but he's already 19, has a good goalscoring record and surely it's worth a chance just to see how well he does do? If we had good alternatives you wouldn't rush him but surely he's worth sticking on for 20 minutes when we're a goal or two down, just to see what happens and if he can create anything? It's not like we've got anything to lose.

[TANGODANCER]

^^

In the few reserve games I've seen on film, Tom Youngs has looked mightily impressive playing down the left side. I'd be happy to listen to somebody who's seen him regularly, but at 20, surely he's worth a shot?

[Lord Kangana]

I think we've now entered a dangerous phase where we may damage a reasonably promising set of youngsters if we're not careful. Mores the pity really, if a little more thought had been put into the team, I think we could have had a couple of decent mid-table (rebuilding) seasons incorporating quite a few of them in bursts as subs, and indeed with some prolonged runs. Instead of the god-awful, loan-drenched drudgery we've witnessed.

As it is, we're heading for the foot of the table like a f*cking dart, and I'm not sure we'll benefit from exposing them now. An opportunity wasted?

[bobo the clown]

I think we've now entered a dangerous phase where we may damage a reasonably promising set of youngsters if we're not careful. Mores the pity really, if a little more thought had been put into the team, I think we could have had a couple of decent mid-table (rebuilding) seasons incorporating quite a few of them in bursts as subs, and indeed with some prolonged runs. Instead of the god-awful, loan-drenched drudgery we've witnessed.

As it is, we're heading for the foot of the table like a f*cking dart, and I'm not sure we'll benefit from exposing them now. An opportunity wasted?

100% this.

[jetsetwilly]

The man talks nonsense. Most of the loan 'signings' who leave are players he sends back.

He bangs on about youth, but never gives them a chance.

Look at Hayden White. From 1st choice at Leeds, to League 2 in the space of 2 weeks. Sure he is full of confidence now. If he builds this side on Mason, Garvan etc then what does he think is going to happen at the end of the season? Oh yes, the loan players will go back and we start again. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS TO LOAN PLAYERS you idiot.

His excuses are more bizarre every week, only more puzzling is the silence from Phil

[LeverEnd]

It's just the latest version of the blame everyone else mantra. I think he genuinely considers himself blameless in the this whole sorry mess.

[Worthy4England]

I think we've now entered a dangerous phase where we may damage a reasonably promising set of youngsters if we're not careful. Mores the pity really, if a little more thought had been put into the team, I think we could have had a couple of decent mid-table (rebuilding) seasons incorporating quite a few of them in bursts as subs, and indeed with some prolonged runs. Instead of the god-awful, loan-drenched drudgery we've witnessed.

As it is, we're heading for the foot of the table like a f*cking dart, and I'm not sure we'll benefit from exposing them now. An opportunity wasted?

100% this.

Not as convinced as you two on this one. Is it not better to give someone the chance of playing 90 minutes per week with another team, if at best you're only going to give them 10 minutes occasionally?

Loaning people out seems a fairly tried and trusted method of bring players on and giving them experience.

We could of course argue that the players are worth more than 10 minutes occasionally, which is a different thing altogether. It doesn't necessarily hold that because you're heading to the foot of the table like a dart that bringing in players who aren't good enough will stem that acceleration, they could give it added impetus.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I wouldn't like to expose the kids we've got - promising, but hardly threatening - to the first team we have now. If they need match experience, they should go on loan. This ain't the time for a kids' school play.

That said, I completely understand the confusion when we borrow other teams' relative youngsters. I'm sure Herd is probably better than all of our academy lads, and therefore probably more able to help us avoid relegation, which is the situation we're in – partly because the manager has been consistently unable to get results out of his players. The loanees quote is the latest in a long line of garrulous gob-offs that have come back to bite him - they just seem to be getting quicker.

If Herd comes in and helps, I'm happy. Who knows, maybe if he likes it a lot he'll stay, and maybe if Villa aren't arsed he could even move here permanently - which should be our priority with the majority of loanees.

[wigan white]

These "kids" we're talking about aren't exactly kids, these are 20/21yr olds. Players this age are main stays of other teams so why not ours. I could understand if these players were 16/17 but ffs they're not. Dougie seems to think anyone under the age of 25 is a kid and cannot possibly get an extended run in the first team. Look what he said about Sordell and Eaves that they couldnt play more than 20 games a season because of their ages, they were 21 when he said that. Luke Shaw played almost every game for Southampton last season and he was only 17. I think DF is obsessed with the Italian method of training which he studied at Inter Milan, as they dont really play younger kids in the first team (with the very odd exception) and he's letting this affect his judgement in the English game.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I agree that if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I'm not sure they're good enough.

[coffeymagic]

I always thought Vela looked comfortable, certainly no worse than anyone else on the pitch. He wanted the ball too which is a novelty in the modern Wanderer.

I've said this a million times but surely it's got to be better to have 'Wanderers' players than a bunch of nice people who can't get in at Palace.

How must players feel if they're in training every day only to see someone roll up and walk straight into the role of penalty missing bastard?

Freedman is a tit.

[wigan white]

I agree that if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I'm not sure they're good enough.

i do agree that most aren't actually good enough (although theyre never given the chance to show us), which also leads onto the point that some of these have been at BWFC for a few years, so surely if the management can see theyre not good enough then why are they still with us. Vela and Clough are an example of this (I know Vela has had some injury problems) but they have been with us a few years and havent really shown signs of getting into the first team (properly) so why are they still with us???? I know they wont be on massive wages, but we're still paying them and if they're not good enough for the first team then we should get rid and use the money elsewhere!!!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I wanted to take took a close look at Vela in the game at Crawley and he did indeed want the ball, which is as you say No Bad Thing. But he didn't last the 90 minutes. He has never lasted 90 minutes for Bolton Wanderers. His 494 minutes of action have been spread over 15 games. The only time he's ever featured in consecutive games was in Jan/Feb 2013: we won the first, drew the second 0-0, lost the third and lost the fourth in what was widely regarded as our team's worst performance in a decade. That was at Watford. Freedman dropped him, we got 20 points from the next 24. Coincidence perhaps, but our win percentage that season with him was 14%, without him 42%. Our results overall in his appearances are W2, D7, L6. Again: we don't have room to carry a work-experience lad.

I would love him to come good. I strongly suspect that his best chance of doing that is to get a few games under his belt at another club, as he did toward the end of last season at Notts County and got generally good reviews (here and here).

Or looked at another way: If we're two up top, which we seem to need to because Mason isn't a lone forward and Cravies isn't a goalscorer, do you accommodate Vela by dropping a winger, or Mavies, or Spearing?

[IggyTheDawgster]

Drop Spearing, Please.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I agree that if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I'm not sure they're good enough.

i do agree that most aren't actually good enough (although theyre never given the chance to show us), which also leads onto the point that some of these have been at BWFC for a few years, so surely if the management can see theyre not good enough then why are they still with us. Vela and Clough are an example of this (I know Vela has had some injury problems) but they have been with us a few years and havent really shown signs of getting into the first team (properly) so why are they still with us???? I know they wont be on massive wages, but we're still paying them and if they're not good enough for the first team then we should get rid and use the money elsewhere!!!

Young players – be they academy graduates or youngsters picked up from other clubs (Cian Bolger, Joe McKee, Tom Eaves, Tope Obadeyi, Conor Wilkinson, Olafi Pal Snorrason) - get released all the time. The ones who don't have shown enough ability to earn another contract.

It makes sound business sense, not just because they may suddenly become first-team players - well, not usually, anyway - but because they may be sold on to lower-division clubs with a low fee but a sell-on percentage if they do mature into worthwhile assets later in their careers.

The example I always think of with this is David Norris, who Sam signed for £50k from Boston as an 18-year-old (Norris, not Sam). He never made the grade with us and went on a few loans, the last to Plymouth, who happily bought him with a 50% sell-on fee. Six years later he went to Ipswich for a seven-figure sum, albeit only after Argyle had negotiated to buy out our clause (presumably to our satisfaction). A youth team might only produce four or five first-team players in a decade but it might also produce four or five players a year who can go into the lower leagues, hopefully growing in value and earning us money down the line. That money might even pay for the academy.

We who watch the first team can't know which players are good enough. The cry always goes up that Someone Must Be Better but it's not necessarily the wet-eared greenhorns in our reserves. Earlier this year our fellow TW contributor Dr Hotdog, who goes to more youth games than most, was saying our kids weren't very promising at all. I'm sure Freedman would love to promote those who are good enough - he did it enough at Palace and said he would here (although his quotes are getting increasingly self-sabotaging, as if he's trying to get both feet in his mouth and landing on his arse). We may not like it but have to trust Freedman - and perhaps more importantly his youth-team coaches (who seem overall to be doing OK, so much so that some would rather they manage the first team) - as to which ones are ready when.

When Hayden White went on loan to Carlisle the other week, nobody formed a human chain round Euxton to stop say Oscar Threlkeld going the same way.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Drop Spearing, Please.

I'd consider dropping Spearing too. For Medo.

[bobo the clown]

I'd rather see Freeman released than Vela, Ilive, Clough et al without in some cases them being given so much as a sniff. Not even the bench, not even in League Cup games.


Then again, I'd like to see him go more than a lot of things.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd rather see Freeman released than Vela, Ilive, Clough et al without in some cases them being given so much as a sniff. Not even the bench, not even in League Cup games.


Then again, I'd like to see him go more than a lot of things.

So would I, Bobey baby, so would I. Doesn't mean I think everything he does is wrong.

Putting the kids out for a very public f*cking at Chelsea would not, IMO, do them or us any good. Mature fringe players like Pratley, Beckford, Kenny, Medo - fine, they're big and ugly enough to cope and should be itching to prove their case.