Freedman out!

[thebish]

If he is to be sacked, and I hope he is, I must admit that I am nervous about who we get in next. We're cutting our cloth, we have virtually no resources for transfers (even less if we fire him), and we're on relegation form. Who on Earth would want to come here who could push us up the league?

fear not! SF is confident that Pulis is gagging for the job...

[EverSoYouri]

http://www.foxpunter.com/dougie-freedman-2014-09-29/

good article that i agree with on the whole situation

have heard he's been sacked but nothing officially announced yet

Interesting article. Mike's a good lad, he's done some stuff for us – the piece in the new FFT on Gary Rowett at Burton is illuminating – even if he did once accidentally have all of Plymouth hating us...

Anyway, the only bit I'd really disagree with in his piece is "the 11 [players] he has little choice but to select hang him out to dry with performances bordering on disgraceful". He has choice. He makes choices before every game. He usually gets it wrong. We're not so skint we've only got 11 players, and he seems to be picking the wrong ones on almost every occasion.

And on the contract thing - Freedman's much-repeated quote about giving his family "security" is just what anyone would say when moving job for a better salary. Doesn't necessarily mean he's willing to work himself to death. He looks very close to a breakdown.It's becoming pitiful.

Hope you're right about the first sentence in bold, but absolutely agree with the second. My main point is I don't expect him to walk, which leaves it to Gartside to do his job - he has a duty of care to the club and to the manager.

(And you are, of course, spot on about DF's team selection; even setting aside the tactical errors, the man has undermined his own efforts by constantly sending out different and ill-balanced starting elevens).

[Prufrock]

I'll say one thing for Jiminho, he twigged that he might want to build his team around the one footballer he actually has, instead of leaving him on the bench for Darren fecking Pratley.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Interestingly, yon writer Mike Holden has also written about Keith Hill's tactical flexibility... just sayin' like... http://www.foxpunter.com/video-analysis-rochdale/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bobo the clown]

He has a contract till next June. In normal circumstances he'd be discussing a renewal very soon but that's clearly not going to happen. I doubt, it being a fixed term contract for a football manager, there's a notice period in it so he's entitled to be paid for that whole period. Unless he does something crass and can be fired for Gross Misconduct ... which i very much doubt will happen.

So getting rid means arranging that he either gets a lump sum, or continues to be paid each month whilst having his duties removed. Depending on the details there may be a base figure plus add ons and this could, possibly, save some of that. The famous "mutual consent" usually means some level of compromise is achieved ... possible in this case as it's obvious to all of us that this is taking a toll on his wellbeing. His biggest aim will be to maintain his reputation be employable by other clubs but frankly his rep as a manager must be shot to shit by now and holding on may do yet more damage.

Hopefully these discussions are proceeding right now.

[Riviman]

Who knows perhaps Lennie Lawrence might be appointed interim manager if DF goes, then he will HAVE TO SPEAK !

Of course any payoffs presumably would also include CL and LL and any back room staff a new man doesn't want. All in all a very expensive process.

[EverSoYouri]

He has a contract till next June. In normal circumstances he'd be discussing a renewal very soon but that's clearly not going to happen. I doubt, it being a fixed term contract for a football manager, there's a notice period in it so he's entitled to be paid for that whole period. Unless he does something crass and can be fired for Gross Misconduct ... which i very much doubt will happen.

So getting rid means arranging that he either gets a lump sum, or continues to be paid each month whilst having his duties removed. Depending on the details there may be a base figure plus add ons and this could, possibly, save some of that. The famous "mutual consent" usually means some level of compromise is achieved ... possible in this case as it's obvious to all of us that this is taking a toll on his wellbeing. His biggest aim will be to maintain his reputation be employable by other clubs but frankly his rep as a manager must be shot to shit by now and holding on may do yet more damage.

Hopefully these discussions are proceeding right now.

With you on this (except his rep may recover quite quickly - did the dirty part of the job without complaint etc...) If he isn't sent packing today, he could (as someone has already mentioned way back) be put on gardening leave till the end of the season and Jiminho could take over. Three foreseeable outcomes:

1) Jimmy can't reverse the damage and we go down (anybody not think that's where we're headed under DF?) Result: no worse, except perhaps fans a little less bitter?
2) Jimmy struggles but does just enough to keep us up. Result: DF goes, Jimmy steps aside for next manager.
3) Given 3/4 of a season, Jimmy finds his feet and guides us to mid-table. Result: we have a new manager at (no doubt) a reasonable cost.

ps I hope by the time you guys are reading this, it's redundant because Mr Freedman is out the door but, if not, it seems like a no lose solution.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Might not have to be Jimmy for anything longer than a caretaker role while we find another boss. Some are unemployed. Some might not need much compensation. I don't know.

Unless we can't actually afford to pay two managerial wages. Even then, some might even be willing to take it on a low wage to get back into football. I'm not talking those with Premier experience, because frankly that's f*ck-all use to us in the foreseeable future, I'd rather have someone who knows the lower leagues and can find bargains. Plenty of managers who've lost jobs at second-tier and below who'd be happy to have a chance. Two years ago it was Sean Dyche. Twenty years ago it was Bruce Rioch.

[wigan white]

Didn't Jimmy say last time that he didn't want the job permanently as he is happy working in the academy???

Also noticed that the BEN website hasn't been updated with any wanderers news, wonder if it's a sign that something is going on (or I may be just clutching at straws).

[boltonboris]

The BN will probably find out any news from the clubs twitter feed

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... talks.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Dougie Freedman will hold crunch talks with Bolton Wanderers on Thursday when he could be sacked after a dreadful start to the Championship season. Freedman will meet with chairman Phil Gartside in the wake of Wednesday's humiliating 4-0 defeat at Fulham, with his prospects of remaining as manager appearing increasingly bleak."

[Lord Kangana]

He has a contract till next June. In normal circumstances he'd be discussing a renewal very soon but that's clearly not going to happen. I doubt, it being a fixed term contract for a football manager, there's a notice period in it so he's entitled to be paid for that whole period. Unless he does something crass and can be fired for Gross Misconduct ... which i very much doubt will happen.

So getting rid means arranging that he either gets a lump sum, or continues to be paid each month whilst having his duties removed. Depending on the details there may be a base figure plus add ons and this could, possibly, save some of that. The famous "mutual consent" usually means some level of compromise is achieved ... possible in this case as it's obvious to all of us that this is taking a toll on his wellbeing. His biggest aim will be to maintain his reputation be employable by other clubs but frankly his rep as a manager must be shot to shit by now and holding on may do yet more damage.

Hopefully these discussions are proceeding right now.

With you on this (except his rep may recover quite quickly - did the dirty part of the job without complaint etc...) If he isn't sent packing today, he could (as someone has already mentioned way back) be put on gardening leave till the end of the season and Jiminho could take over. Three foreseeable outcomes:

1) Jimmy can't reverse the damage and we go down (anybody not think that's where we're headed under DF?) Result: no worse, except perhaps fans a little less bitter?
2) Jimmy struggles but does just enough to keep us up. Result: DF goes, Jimmy steps aside for next manager.
3) Given 3/4 of a season, Jimmy finds his feet and guides us to mid-table. Result: we have a new manager at (no doubt) a reasonable cost.

ps I hope by the time you guys are reading this, it's redundant because Mr Freedman is out the door but, if not, it seems like a no lose solution.

If anyone out there is actually thinking we're more likely to stay up than go down at present, they'll need their heads unscrewing and testing from the inside.

Beyond that, a reasonable summary. What have we left to lose?

Well, we keep being told, there isn't any money. There still won't be under Jimmy. Check

Freedman tells us, at this late stage, that his players aren't good enough. So Jimmy can get rid of a few, but if they weren't good enough in the first place, then they still won't be good enough when Jimmy takes charge. So check, agian.

There'll be little pressure or expectation, being as its accepted that we have crap players and no money. So check again.

We're rooted to the bottom of the table. The signs aren't good. We have a manager in charge who has repeated his superlative feat of a our worst start ever two seasons running, our equal worst result ever, and has us 4 points off safety already in this season, we a squad full of players he doesn't rate and seemingly no money to change that.

Really and truthfully, what have we left to lose if we flit him now and put no-one in charge? Or Jimmy?

[boltonboris]

What pissed me off the most last night was him saying that the players he has aren't capable of playing the system he wants to use.. He's blaming the players for that rather than thinking "I better fvckin' adapt"

[EverSoYouri]

Might not have to be Jimmy for anything longer than a caretaker role while we find another boss. Some are unemployed. Some might not need much compensation. I don't know.

Unless we can't actually afford to pay two managerial wages. Even then, some might even be willing to take it on a low wage to get back into football. I'm not talking those with Premier experience, because frankly that's f*ck-all use to us in the foreseeable future, I'd rather have someone who knows the lower leagues and can find bargains. Plenty of managers who've lost jobs at second-tier and below who'd be happy to have a chance. Two years ago it was Sean Dyche. Twenty years ago it was Bruce Rioch.

Suspect Keith Hill wouldn't be difficult/expensive to coax away from Dale. Only question mark concerns what went wrong at Barnsley (Wikipedia suggests: injuries to key players, low budget and bringing in former players who weren't good enough - sounds a bit too Dougie? Any of you guys know better?)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

What pissed me off the most last night was him saying that the players he has aren't capable of playing the system he wants to use.. He's blaming the players for that rather than thinking "I better fvckin' adapt"

But there's another thing Pru and I were discussing. It's not like there is a certain system that he wants to use: it changes every game, as does the personnel. As ever with rotation, when it works it's genius, when it doesn't it's tinkering. At the moment, it feels like rather than perfecting a system and saying "this is what we do", we're having to accommodate one hare-brained scheme after another - trying to out-football Derby, then playing a centre-back in midfield and standing watching Fulham... God knows what the plan is for Bournemouth. Back to 4-4-2?

As you know I'm all for tactical flexibility, but preferably between good ideas rather than simply - to use last night's repeated phrase -monkeys flinging shit at the wall...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

What would be nice would be to have a manager to unite behind. It's only happened once in the last three. Mind you that didn't work in the end either, but it helped for a bit...

[StaffsTrotter]

What pissed me off the most last night was him saying that the players he has aren't capable of playing the system he wants to use.. He's blaming the players for that rather than thinking "I better fvckin' adapt"

given he said that with the players he inherited too - can anyone play it ? And thinking about it, does anyone know what the feck it is - a play through the middle that involves a long diagonal ball from the back; a sit back & control the game which involves ceding complete control to the opposition & not even the basis for rapid counter attack .......

[EverSoYouri]

What would be nice would be to have a manager to unite behind. It's only happened once in the last three. Mind you that didn't work in the end either, but it helped for a bit...

Yep. Kind of ironic that Coyle's downfall could be said to be utter lack of flexibility, whereas this guy has gone to the other extreme.

Even setting aside the bewildering array of tactical variations (none of which seems properly thought out), it's striking how often you hear ex-footballers talk about the importance of getting accustomed to who's around you - knowing how they'll react, where they'll be, what they can handle, where they need help etc.

MOTD2 last Sunday, in fact, wasn't Jason Roberts talking about the importance of partnerships - not just strike partnerships - all over the field? Makes sense to me.

[jaffka]

He isn't getting the sack is he.

The decision to wouldn't take this long.

Roll on toxic Saturday.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He isn't getting the sack is he.

The decision to wouldn't take this long.

Roll on toxic Saturday.

Telegraph are saying "crisis talks" are being held by DF and PG. They tend to rarely end happily for the manager.

Assuming they're this morning - and it's not the sort of thing you'd leave till after lunch, unless they're in for training the morning after a London match? - they might by now be down to the contractual sign-off.