Next Up - Freeman's Replacement

[Bruce Rioja]

Are folk really talking about Andy Hughes as a future manager of Bolton!

Who? Where?

[malcd1]

Hughton's failure at Norwich (given his record elsewhere) seems puzzling. You'd have thought it was a match made in heaven - family club, but big enough to survive and a rep for being a footballing side.

That (rather large) blip aside though, he'd be my choice if the shortlist is correct.

I feel he could steady the ship and keep us up, which is what we need at the moment but could he get us promoted and take us to the next level? I'm not so sure.

I'm not totally against Hughton but I just don't think he is good enough? IMO he would be another 2 year appointment before we needed to get rid.

[Harry Genshaw]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

[EverSoYouri]

Hughton's failure at Norwich (given his record elsewhere) seems puzzling. You'd have thought it was a match made in heaven - family club, but big enough to survive and a rep for being a footballing side.

That (rather large) blip aside though, he'd be my choice if the shortlist is correct.

I hope so - then we can prepare the "Hughton - we have a problem" banners!

[Worthy4England]

We do seem to be talking, as if two years is a short term appointment. There's only 14 managers out of 92 that are currently in post, into their third season or more. Of those, there's none in the Championship and 4 in the Prem - all the others are lower divisions. There are another 16 into their third season, four of which are in the Championship. That leaves 62 that haven't completed two, yet.

[EverSoYouri]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

This is making too much of very little. While I don't think MacKay can be criticised for chasing Sordell (who should have done better than he has), neither can Hughton be blamed for taking a chance on Elmander (who had done okay at a fairly major European club - Galatasaray). Btw he signed Elmander on loan. He didn't buy him.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

I think the question is did Coyle break Sordell, or was he always fairly shit? I think he is probably better than we saw but maybe didn't have the desire required. I'd also say Coyle broke him to an extent. Another manager *may* have gotten more out of him at was probably a delicate stage in his career.

As for Elmander. If he'd cost 2-3m and was seen as a 2nd striker then in that context he was ok. The ridiculous decision to sign him for 8m and big wages will always mean he is seen as a huge mistake. The reality is if he was signed for much less there might not have been a lot of love for him, but there would be far less complaint and he's be viewed as much better than Shittu I blame Megson for spending 8m on him more than I blame Elmander for not being an 8m player.

[EverSoYouri]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

I think the question is did Coyle break Sordell, or was he always fairly shit? I think he is probably better than we saw but maybe didn't have the desire required. I'd also say Coyle broke him to an extent. Another manager *may* have gotten more out of him at was probably a delicate stage in his career.

As for Elmander. If he'd cost 2-3m and was seen as a 2nd striker then in that context he was ok. The ridiculous decision to sign him for 8m and big wages will always mean he is seen as a huge mistake. The reality is if he was signed for much less there might not have been a lot of love for him, but there would be far less complaint and he's be viewed as much better than Shittu I blame Megson for spending 8m on him more than I blame Elmander for not being an 8m player.

Think you have a point about Coyle and Sordell (back to how the club handle potentially important players who have issues (I mean issues that aren't the traditional footballer issues - booze and women). See threads on Jardel and Southern Softies for more on this.

Megson and Elmander clearly didn't get on. Coyle got more from him. I know the cynics will argue Salamander only put the effort in cos he was looking for new club, but there's no doubt that, for the first part of that season, he looked every bit the £8.5m player. He continued to work hard after Christmas, even though Coyle moved him out wide to make way for Sturridge.

[Worthy4England]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

I think the question is did Coyle break Sordell, or was he always fairly shit? I think he is probably better than we saw but maybe didn't have the desire required. I'd also say Coyle broke him to an extent. Another manager *may* have gotten more out of him at was probably a delicate stage in his career.

As for Elmander. If he'd cost 2-3m and was seen as a 2nd striker then in that context he was ok. The ridiculous decision to sign him for 8m and big wages will always mean he is seen as a huge mistake. The reality is if he was signed for much less there might not have been a lot of love for him, but there would be far less complaint and he's be viewed as much better than Shittu I blame Megson for spending 8m on him more than I blame Elmander for not being an 8m player.

Think you have a point about Coyle and Sordell (back to how the club handle potentially important players who have issues (I mean issues that aren't the traditional footballer issues - booze and women). See threads on Jardel and Southern Softies for more on this.

Megson and Elmander clearly didn't get on. Coyle got more from him. I know the cynics will argue Salamander only put the effort in cos he was looking for new club, but there's no doubt that, for the first part of that season, he looked every bit the £8.5m player. He continued to work hard after Christmas, even though Coyle moved him out wide to make way for Sturridge.

He did, even though it showed he was put out about the notion. The most goals a Bolton player has scored in the Prem in a season is 12. He was on 9 at 26 December with 19 games to go....

He got one more, with Sturridge picking up the accolades, despite our overall form and win rate dipping remarkably once he came into the team (great player btw - just upset the balance of the team)

[Jugs]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

I think the question is did Coyle break Sordell, or was he always fairly shit? I think he is probably better than we saw but maybe didn't have the desire required. I'd also say Coyle broke him to an extent. Another manager *may* have gotten more out of him at was probably a delicate stage in his career.

As for Elmander. If he'd cost 2-3m and was seen as a 2nd striker then in that context he was ok. The ridiculous decision to sign him for 8m and big wages will always mean he is seen as a huge mistake. The reality is if he was signed for much less there might not have been a lot of love for him, but there would be far less complaint and he's be viewed as much better than Shittu I blame Megson for spending 8m on him more than I blame Elmander for not being an 8m player.

Think you have a point about Coyle and Sordell (back to how the club handle potentially important players who have issues (I mean issues that aren't the traditional footballer issues - booze and women). See threads on Jardel and Southern Softies for more on this.

Megson and Elmander clearly didn't get on. Coyle got more from him. I know the cynics will argue Salamander only put the effort in cos he was looking for new club, but there's no doubt that, for the first part of that season, he looked every bit the £8.5m player. He continued to work hard after Christmas, even though Coyle moved him out wide to make way for Sturridge.

He did, even though it showed he was put out about the notion. The most goals a Bolton player has scored in the Prem in a season is 12. He was on 9 at 26 December with 19 games to go....

He got one more, with Sturridge picking up the accolades, despite our overall form and win rate dipping remarkably once he came into the team (great player btw - just upset the balance of the team)

This is incorrect. When Sturridge arrived, we'd won 1 in 7. We were near the bottom. Of his first 5 games, we won 3.

[EverSoYouri]

Agree with Tom's assessments there although I rate Hughton a bit higher than Tom does.

Particularly good point about Mackay at Watford, although he might argue he's learned since then.

Mackay chased Sordell when he was unproven and had potential. Hughton bought Elmander when he'd already demonstrated he wasn't up to the job

I think the question is did Coyle break Sordell, or was he always fairly shit? I think he is probably better than we saw but maybe didn't have the desire required. I'd also say Coyle broke him to an extent. Another manager *may* have gotten more out of him at was probably a delicate stage in his career.

As for Elmander. If he'd cost 2-3m and was seen as a 2nd striker then in that context he was ok. The ridiculous decision to sign him for 8m and big wages will always mean he is seen as a huge mistake. The reality is if he was signed for much less there might not have been a lot of love for him, but there would be far less complaint and he's be viewed as much better than Shittu I blame Megson for spending 8m on him more than I blame Elmander for not being an 8m player.

Think you have a point about Coyle and Sordell (back to how the club handle potentially important players who have issues (I mean issues that aren't the traditional footballer issues - booze and women). See threads on Jardel and Southern Softies for more on this.

Megson and Elmander clearly didn't get on. Coyle got more from him. I know the cynics will argue Salamander only put the effort in cos he was looking for new club, but there's no doubt that, for the first part of that season, he looked every bit the £8.5m player. He continued to work hard after Christmas, even though Coyle moved him out wide to make way for Sturridge.

He did, even though it showed he was put out about the notion. The most goals a Bolton player has scored in the Prem in a season is 12. He was on 9 at 26 December with 19 games to go....

He got one more, with Sturridge picking up the accolades, despite our overall form and win rate dipping remarkably once he came into the team (great player btw - just upset the balance of the team)

Worth speculating (well, maybe it isn't, but I'm gonna do it, anyway!) what the outcome might have been had Elmander stayed happily in his central role (btw it's interesting how Sturridge quite often plays wide these days). I wonder if the moody Swede might have become our record Prem scorer and earned a new contract (or had it already been decided he was to be moved on?)

[bobo the clown]

Worth speculating (well, maybe it isn't, but I'm gonna do it, anyway!) what the outcome might have been had Elmander stayed happily in his central role (btw it's interesting how Sturridge quite often plays wide these days). I wonder if the moody Swede might have become our record Prem scorer and earned a new contract (or had it already been decided he was to be moved on?)

I suspect he was already planning a Bosman exit but Sturridge's arrival certainly ensured that.

He sulked awfully at being shunted wide. I remember Sturridge scoring two in one match at the 'bok and on neither occasion did Elmander so much as shake his hand. Another occasion I saw him rant at Sturridge after pass went awry ... & I mean a real rant ... with Sturridge simply watching and shaking his head.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Worth speculating (well, maybe it isn't, but I'm gonna do it, anyway!) what the outcome might have been had Elmander stayed happily in his central role (btw it's interesting how Sturridge quite often plays wide these days). I wonder if the moody Swede might have become our record Prem scorer and earned a new contract (or had it already been decided he was to be moved on?)

I suspect he'd have moved on regardless. I think we were just entering the brave new world of reducing spend, whilst really increasing it, only on shitter players.

I agree with Worthy in that Sturridge, great goal scorer that he was for us, was at the expense of the overall team. we became too dependant on his goals and I think we stopped playing to what other strengths we had. I'm glad we had Sturridge but I do wonder if we might have been stronger in the long run by not becoming so reliant on the fella.

[TonyDomingos]

billy mckinlay ?

think he's ex-rovers, but has a 3 PPG average.

McKinlay has just left Watford after all of eight days in charge (2 PPG). OMG! A1 is the Oracle!

[EverSoYouri]

billy mckinlay ?

think he's ex-rovers, but has a 3 PPG average.

McKinlay has just left Watford after all of eight days in charge (2 PPG). OMG! A1 is the Oracle!

3PPG after one game, 2PPG after 2 games. Might he have hit 1PPG if he'd stuck around for four?

McKinlay out!

[Worthy4England]

This is incorrect. When Sturridge arrived, we'd won 1 in 7. We were near the bottom. Of his first 5 games, we won 3.

No, it's not. Our overall performance went down after Sturridge signed. 31 Jan we had 30 points from 24 games (day he signed) - 1.25 PPG, we were in 10th place. We ended the season on 46 points from 38 games - 1.21 PPG in 14th place.

We had won one in 7 before he arrived - we lost 5 - those being Chelsea (home and away), Liverpool, Stoke, Sunderland (all away) - all above us in the League (at 31/1/11) so some tricky games there.

We'd been spanked 4-0 by Chelsea
Lost 2-0 to Stoke away
Drawn V Wigan
Lost 2-1 to Liverpool away
Lost 1-0 to Chelsea away
Beaten West Brom
Lost 1-0 to Sunderland away

His first 5 games included home wins against Wolves, Villa and Everton all of whom were below us in the league (on the day he signed) - Result!

[Worthy4England]

Worth speculating (well, maybe it isn't, but I'm gonna do it, anyway!) what the outcome might have been had Elmander stayed happily in his central role (btw it's interesting how Sturridge quite often plays wide these days). I wonder if the moody Swede might have become our record Prem scorer and earned a new contract (or had it already been decided he was to be moved on?)

I suspect he was already planning a Bosman exit but Sturridge's arrival certainly ensured that.

He sulked awfully at being shunted wide. I remember Sturridge scoring two in one match at the 'bok and on neither occasion did Elmander so much as shake his hand. Another occasion I saw him rant at Sturridge after pass went awry ... & I mean a real rant ... with Sturridge simply watching and shaking his head.

I saw that both ways - I saw Sturridge telling Elmander what he needed to be doing as well. Either way it clearly wasn't a match made in heaven. I suspect Elmander had determined he was on his bike - which makes me wonder why we didn't try and get some cash for him in January..

[Jugs]

This is incorrect. When Sturridge arrived, we'd won 1 in 7. We were near the bottom. Of his first 5 games, we won 3.

No, it's not. Our overall performance went down after Sturridge signed. 31 Jan we had 30 points from 24 games (day he signed) - 1.25 PPG, we were in 10th place. We ended the season on 46 points from 38 games - 1.21 PPG in 14th place.

We had won one in 7 before he arrived - we lost 5 - those being Chelsea (home and away), Liverpool, Stoke, Sunderland (all away) - all above us in the League (at 31/1/11) so some tricky games there.

We'd been spanked 4-0 by Chelsea
Lost 2-0 to Stoke away
Drawn V Wigan
Lost 2-1 to Liverpool away
Lost 1-0 to Chelsea away
Beaten West Brom
Lost 1-0 to Sunderland away

His first 5 games included home wins against Wolves, Villa and Everton all of whom were below us in the league (on the day he signed) - Result!

Nice dress up and spin But I have to say that I disagree with your conclusions. We were in dire form when he arrived, and I remember clearly being concerned about a relegation fight. We had a purple patch of form in November but that was a distant memory. Sturridge gave us impetus, new life. And I think, rather than folk blaming Sturridge for Elmander's loss of form and being moved into midfield, why not look at the unmovable Kevin Davies? At least Sturridge banged in the goals. He gave us something we needed at a certain time.

[TANGODANCER]

Sturridge gave us impetus, new life. And I think, rather than folk blaming Sturridge for Elmander's loss of form and being moved into midfield, why not look at the unmovable Kevin Davies? At least Sturridge banged in the goals. He gave us something we needed at a certain time.

Which of Sturridge or Elmander are you nominating as being on the end of Jussi's longballers, Jugs? Just wondering..

[boltonboris]

In fairness Davies and Sturridge clicked.. Studge can owe a lot to SKD being a magnet to defenders and creating the space for him