Today I'm angry about.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Oh - are we headed towards this 'evil people don't really exist' bullshit again?

Well, from the news reports it seems like he had a perfectly normal upbringing so there can't be the usual 'inherent underclass' angle. So you're alternatives seem to be:

a) possessed by an evil spirit.
b) re-incarnation of Lucifer.
c) some other form of unexplained inherent 'badness'
d) seriously mentally unstable.

I know where my money is. I'm not talking about having sympathy for him, rather there's no way the good old Victorian "shove 'em in jail that'll learn 'em" approach is going to work.

'Learn him' what? He's brutally murdered an innocent human being, or did you miss that? He's an evil little c*nt. Nobody's questioned his upbringing as it's absolutely irrelevant.

[Prufrock]

What the f*ck is evil?

Is he Satan?

[Hoboh]

I think this is a really complex case and, in this country, unique.

This is a good kid (his teachers' reports call him a a lovely student, a good, well-behaved student).

He is an above average student at this school in terms of ability. He is described by one friend as 'the most intelligent' he has ever known.

He posts his intentions on facebook last Christmas eve.

He comes to school and shows his fellow students the knives he is going to use.

[I speculate - he is asking to be caught, to be stopped, he feels he can't stop himself so is asking for others to help him]...

He tells the police he is glad he is caught. he tells them he wants to go to prison. [he knows he is a bad person. he knows he deserves punishment]

He displays no empathy with the people he has hurt, he is totally, totally wrapped up in himself...

His psychiatrist in court says he has psychopathic tendencies...

This young person is very seriously disturbed. He doesn't belong in prison. He doesn't belong on the gallows.

He belongs in a psychiatric unit for seriously disturbed young offenders... it's a pity the Blair government closed one of those... maybe both...

Sorry Will, he is a danger and always will be, Intelligence or appearing to be a nice boy just does not wash, society puts down rabid or dangerous dogs, is that fair?

[Hoboh]

What the f*ck is evil?

Is he Satan?

Probably one of his stray tadpoles!

[Lord Kangana]

society puts down rabid or dangerous dogs, is that fair?

Are you worried?

[Hoboh]

society puts down rabid or dangerous dogs, is that fair?

Are you worried?

I don't know you that well so not overly so.

[Lord Kangana]

What about legally owned rabid dogs that are kept on leads? Surely they're ok, aren't they?

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... ern-europe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well here's someone surprise, surprise, who thinks the little love is being unfairly treated.

The liberals still at large in this country are almost as scary as Merkel and her European domination plans.

[William the White]

I think this is a really complex case and, in this country, unique.

This is a good kid (his teachers' reports call him a a lovely student, a good, well-behaved student).

He is an above average student at this school in terms of ability. He is described by one friend as 'the most intelligent' he has ever known.

He posts his intentions on facebook last Christmas eve.

He comes to school and shows his fellow students the knives he is going to use.

[I speculate - he is asking to be caught, to be stopped, he feels he can't stop himself so is asking for others to help him]...

He tells the police he is glad he is caught. he tells them he wants to go to prison. [he knows he is a bad person. he knows he deserves punishment]

He displays no empathy with the people he has hurt, he is totally, totally wrapped up in himself...

His psychiatrist in court says he has psychopathic tendencies...

This young person is very seriously disturbed. He doesn't belong in prison. He doesn't belong on the gallows.

He belongs in a psychiatric unit for seriously disturbed young offenders... it's a pity the Blair government closed one of those... maybe both...

Sorry Will, he is a danger and always will be, Intelligence or appearing to be a nice boy just does not wash, society puts down rabid or dangerous dogs, is that fair?

You aren't interested in what has turned a 15 year old, joy to teach, intelligent, good kid into a murderer?

Your lack of curiosity should be startling. But somehow isn't.

[Hoboh]

I think this is a really complex case and, in this country, unique.

This is a good kid (his teachers' reports call him a a lovely student, a good, well-behaved student).

He is an above average student at this school in terms of ability. He is described by one friend as 'the most intelligent' he has ever known.

He posts his intentions on facebook last Christmas eve.

He comes to school and shows his fellow students the knives he is going to use.

[I speculate - he is asking to be caught, to be stopped, he feels he can't stop himself so is asking for others to help him]...

He tells the police he is glad he is caught. he tells them he wants to go to prison. [he knows he is a bad person. he knows he deserves punishment]

He displays no empathy with the people he has hurt, he is totally, totally wrapped up in himself...

His psychiatrist in court says he has psychopathic tendencies...

This young person is very seriously disturbed. He doesn't belong in prison. He doesn't belong on the gallows.

He belongs in a psychiatric unit for seriously disturbed young offenders... it's a pity the Blair government closed one of those... maybe both...

Sorry Will, he is a danger and always will be, Intelligence or appearing to be a nice boy just does not wash, society puts down rabid or dangerous dogs, is that fair?

You aren't interested in what has turned a 15 year old, joy to teach, intelligent, good kid into a murderer?

Your lack of curiosity should be startling. But somehow isn't.

Some things are best left alone Will or else we end up with lots of terminations or Pru's baby shooting scenario.

[Prufrock]

MY baby shooting scenario?

Things like normal-seeming 15 year-olds turning into psychopathic killers doesn't fit in my box of 'leave well alone'.

[LeverEnd]

Of course he will be tested, studied etc etc. Ultimately I don't see there being an answer to why he did it other than he wanted to and enjoyed it. All the hand-wringing and emotionally detached discussion in the world will not find any other answer than that I feel. What do you think has been happening in the intervening months? 50 lashes a day in some dungeon?
It's a definite case if ever there was one of 'chuck away the key'.

[Prufrock]

I'm not convinced he will. I don't know specifically about cases such as this, but people I've met recently who work in prisons give the impression that prison budgets means it extends to 'do your best to stop them killing one another' and that's your lot. It will be a little different due to his age, but I'd be surprised if there was much attention paid. Much more likely it seems to me is that he'll be locked up and never heard of again until the next time it happens, when everyone will talk about that other time it happened, and repeat.

I don't think anyone is suggesting give him a couple of hours of group therapy then let him go. Even if you try to 'treat' him that's going to take a long time.

I'd agree with most of what that person Hoboh linked to said, apart from the bit where she said the aim should be to release people who are "less likely to offend". No, with crimes like this you've got to be as certain as possible that it won't happen again, and there's no reason to say you necessarily would ever be sufficiently certain.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'm not convinced he will. I don't know specifically about cases such as this, but people I've met recently who work in prisons give the impression that prison budgets means it extends to 'do your best to stop them killing one another' and that's your lot. It will be a little different due to his age, but I'd be surprised if there was much attention paid. Much more likely it seems to me is that he'll be locked up and never heard of again until the next time it happens, when everyone will talk about that other time it happened, and repeat.

I don't think anyone is suggesting give him a couple of hours of group therapy then let him go. Even if you try to 'treat' him that's going to take a long time.

I'd agree with most of what that person Hoboh linked to said, apart from the bit where she said the aim should be to release people who are "less likely to offend". No, with crimes like this you've got to be as certain as possible that it won't happen again, and there's no reason to say you necessarily would ever be sufficiently certain.

You asked earlier what evil was: here is my definition, evil is when somebody does wrong knowing they are doing wrong and celebrate the fact they've knowingly done wrong.
That applies to minor shit as well as major, when it's major shit - like depriving someone of their one and only life - then that's truly evil as opposed to ordinarily evil.
Vengeance by the way, is addressing evil deeds in an evil manner - of that, or at least the thought of that, I admit I have a vengeful personality.
I hope that clears that up. Made up creatures like God and Satan have nowt to do with it.

[Jugs]

But how do you define what is wrong? What's wrong to you might not be wrong to someone else, and all that.

Evil is subjective, in any case. It isn't written in law, it's not something which is objectively proven one way or another.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

But how do you define what is wrong? What's wrong to you might not be wrong to someone else, and all that.

Evil is subjective, in any case. It isn't written in law, it's not something which is objectively proven one way or another.

You don't need a definition of "wrong" in the definition of evil I gave. It was inherent within the definition - self referencing.
And you are wrong anyway - life/death is not subjective. In my definition if you kill somebody knowing it's 'wrong' (and celebrate the action) you ARE evil.

[Jugs]

But how do you define what is wrong? What's wrong to you might not be wrong to someone else, and all that.

Evil is subjective, in any case. It isn't written in law, it's not something which is objectively proven one way or another.

You don't need a definition of "wrong" in the definition of evil I gave. It was inherent within the definition - self referencing.
And you are wrong anyway - life/death is not subjective. In my definition if you kill somebody knowing it's 'wrong' (and celebrate the action) you ARE evil.

But the fact that you said 'my definition of evil' surely affirms that evil is subjective?

They are doing wrong in the eyes of someone else. It doesn't mean they're convinced they're doing wrong in their own eyes. It's like when you suspend ethics in the name of ideology. Wrong becomes right - such as killing in wartime.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

But how do you define what is wrong? What's wrong to you might not be wrong to someone else, and all that.

Evil is subjective, in any case. It isn't written in law, it's not something which is objectively proven one way or another.

You don't need a definition of "wrong" in the definition of evil I gave. It was inherent within the definition - self referencing.
And you are wrong anyway - life/death is not subjective. In my definition if you kill somebody knowing it's 'wrong' (and celebrate the action) you ARE evil.

But the fact that you said 'my definition of evil' surely affirms that evil is subjective?

They are doing wrong in the eyes of someone else. It doesn't mean they're convinced they're doing wrong in their own eyes. It's like when you suspend ethics in the name of ideology. Wrong becomes right - such as killing in wartime.

prufrock asked in a rather hysterical manner "What is evil anyway", he wailed, "Is he Satan?", he added.
I merely gave him the benefit of my definition. I don't give a toss, in a similarly 'evil' manner to the killer ( knowing I'm wrong) that you have a different definition.
In other words, evil is not just defined by one's own perspective (in my definition) but by the perpetrator's own perspective. Believe me both me and Cornick know he's an evil c*nt - the fact you and Prufrock can't see this just amuses us (evilly).

[Jugs]

Neither of us know what Cornick thinks of his actions. He could be another Ian Brady, who believes he's a superman who transcends ordinary people and can do what he wants. He might believe there are no right or wrong actions - just actions. Who really knows?

According to my own morals, he's a bastard.

[jaffka]

ambulance chasing lawyers prefer criminals out of prison, its their income you see, defending them, when they are causing misery in the community