Questions about Allardyce's spell in charge

[Guest]

Hi guys, as you may be able to tell by my username, I'm not a Bolton fan. I'm a football writer, and I come to you with questions regarding Sam Allardyce's time as manager of the club. I plan on writing something about this period, with emphasis on Allardyce's policy of signing international veterans, but also other aspects of his management.

I know as much as most non-Bolton fans do, but I want to get some fans thoughts as you all will have a much stronger recollection of that time. My questions are as follows:

- What was made of his transfer policy at that time? For instance, what did you think when he brought in Djorkaeff, Okocha, Hierro and suchlike?
- Who were the best out of these players? What are your favourite memories, moments involving them?
- Was Allardyce's style of football as bad as the media/other fans tended to portray it?
- Did you always enjoy Big Sam's time as manager? Was he ever in trouble or under-fire as far as you were concerned?
- How would you describe him based on his time with Bolton? A visionary or a relic? Boring or pragmatic? Under-rated or over-achieving?

I really appreciate your taking the time to read this, any and all comments would be welcome.
Cheers!

[Spartan2]

His transfer policy was clever, it used the fact that if you don't spend on transfer fees you can pay higher wages and attract better players. He also focused on maximising the quality of the first 11 you could even argue the first 9! the reasoning being, a very good eleven with poor squad players will usually beat any selection of a team from a large squad with no real quality. Pursuing a smaller amount of high quality players without spending on fees naturally meant out of contract players looking for a big pay check. interestingly this led to a marked disparity in talent, I wonder if Hunt and Heirro is the biggest gap in quality for two players ever to line up in the same team? anyway, I think the vast majority of people were onboard with this strategy.

For me the best of these players was Okocha, have you ever seen anyone before or since do what he could do? if messi or Rooney or someone did those things people would talk about it all the time, they weren't frivolous skills either they worked and came off consistently. I doubt I'll ever see any player in any team play like that, and to see him do it at the bok was a real pleasure. "you've only come to see Okocha"

The style was never an issue for me, if your a small team in a big league there are going to be games when you are not playing well, overly defensive, cancelling out the opposition, etc. but I was usually entertained, how can watching djorkaeff, okocha, campo, stellios, k.davies, gardener, Hierro, not be entertaining? ironically most of the criticism of our style was from big teams who we'd just beaten which was doubly entertaining!

err, he was always highly regarded. he is very underrated.

I have stuff to do so I'm going to leave it there.

disclaimer: IMO.

[Dr Hotdog]

Bit harsh on Nicky Hunt there, IMO.

[Beefheart]

- What was made of his transfer policy at that time? For instance, what did you think when he brought in Djorkaeff, Okocha, Hierro and suchlike?

It was obviously a successful policy, but it was ultimately a pretty short term one as it led to us having an aging squad. I think the fans were in favour of the policy particularly after signing Youri and Okocha (who was actually in his 20's when we signed him so not actually a veteran) worked out so well, and despite it being quite a brief period I think everyone can look back on it fondly.

- Who were the best out of these players? What are your favourite memories, moments involving them?

My favourite was Campo. My favourite moment involving him was anytime he was on the pitch. The perfect combination of skill, personality and hair.

- Was Allardyce's style of football as bad as the media/other fans tended to portray it?

Less so in the early days, more so later on. But anyway, Allardyce then used it to galvanise his team with an us vs them mentality, rather than pandering to these West Ham fans with the whole 'playing football the right way' bollocks. As I'm sure Sam has said on many times, the right way to play football is to win.

- Did you always enjoy Big Sam's time as manager? Was he ever in trouble or under-fire as far as you were concerned?

I think towards the end attendances started to fall, so maybe some people were a bit fed up but I can't see that he was ever really under-fire.

- How would you describe him based on his time with Bolton? A visionary or a relic? Boring or pragmatic? Under-rated or over-achieving?

A visionary in some ways, his approach became the model for a team coming up that wanted to stay up and his approach to transfers I don't think had been done before. I think 4 consecutive top-8 finishes has to ultimately go down as a success, can't he be both under-rated and over-achieving?

[Worthy4England]

- What was made of his transfer policy at that time? For instance, what did you think when he brought in Djorkaeff, Okocha, Hierro and suchlike?
Excellent policy - other managers tried to go for two players in each position of similar quality, and we ended up with two Championship cloggers. When we signed Djorkaeff, I thought someone was joking - but what a delight to see all that top level talent. I don't actually think it led to us having an aging squad per-se. People forget that Nolan, Jasskelainen, Hunt, Gardner, Davies etc. were all early to mid 20's at the in 2005. So the problem was more with the chaps adding the class - Campo, Djorkaeff etc. replacing them was a problem.

- Who were the best out of these players? What are your favourite memories, moments involving them?

For me, not the most necessarily the most skilful, but Campo epitomised the spirit of the side, had great hair and could milk a foul in the dying 5 minutes better than anyone. Most poignant memory was when he got unceremoniously let go by Megson, by txt and wrote an open letter to the fans vie Guillerme Balague - just all heart on sleeve stuff - but showed how important Bolton was to him. Oh the daisy cutter against Spurs from about 40 yards was pretty good too. They were all great at what they did - it wasn't about being the best individual, it was about being the best team we could be.

- Was Allardyce's style of football as bad as the media/other fans tended to portray it?

Stands to reason doesn't it - it must've been. Djokaeff, Okocha, Speed, Campo, Stelios, Hierro - all noted for being "a bit shit". A lot of it came from Arsenal fans, who's raison d'etre was to tippy tappy their way to winning nothing. I looked through the Opta stats one year - "Long Ball Bolton" were around 13th in the Premier League of teams that played the most long balls. West Ham "we play the proper way" - great up and down like a yo-yo team until Allardyce took over - Martin Samuels didn't help, being a bitter West Ham know nowt.

- Did you always enjoy Big Sam's time as manager? Was he ever in trouble or under-fire as far as you were concerned?

Yes - always enjoyed it. As with any other manager there were some losing streaks, but never under fire or in trouble from where I was sat. There were some folks who expected us to push on from 6th/7th etc. including Sam, but that was never realistically likely.

- How would you describe him based on his time with Bolton? A visionary or a relic? Boring or pragmatic? Under-rated or over-achieving?

Visionary - not much used around sports science in England when Sam and his team started using it at Bolton, pragmatic up to a certain point - he did want more investment the year he left when we were sat in 3rd place at the end of December and I think couldn't understand why it wasn't made available to him. I'm fairly sure Our benefactor had reasons for not funding a splurge - might not have had the cash to do so...Both under rated and over achieving at Bolton, rescued Blackburn, improved Newcastle's league position and kept West Ham up for longer than one season....

[Bijou Bob]

For every Okocha, there was a Passi, a Lord Kangana or a Diawara. The transfer policy was in actuality a tad hit and miss, yet it did pull in some players on incredible quality. I suspect we will never see another manager adopt the approach that BSA did and perhaps his approach was just of its time, with several big name stars wanting a last pay day. We don't seem to see players coming down divisions as we did then, financially there is no incentive for them to do so.

The best of those players? For me Djorkaeff is the best player I've ever seen in my club's shirt and sadly, I don't expect to ever see him bettered in my lifetime.

Allardyce's playing style and transfer policy ensured that we were able to compete with teams who were spending 20/30/40 times our budget. At the end of his tenure, I was glad to see him go to be honest. I wasn't enjoying watching us and we were on the decline, which was a far cry from where we started and had been. Yes, we could play long ball and against some defences, that was a necessity, we didn't have the craft in midfield to pass around Arsenal or United. It also intimidated other teams, Arsenal were visibly frightened at the back when they came to the Reebok. Thierry Henry is one of my all time favourite players, yet he was largely poor against us, his game just seemed to suffer against a team who didn't shirk a challenge.

Allardyce for me was the quintessential pragmatist. He did what was needed and he did it well. It's him I have to thank for my forays into Europe with a club I never thought would get there. He achieved miracles with very little and for that, he will always have my admiration and thanks

[Bruce Rioja]

- Was Allardyce's style of football as bad as the media/other fans tended to portray it?

A lot of it came from Arsenal fans, who's raison d'etre was to tippy tappy their way to winning nothing.

Hmm. Not sure about that. I thought that in the main it came from shit managers like Greame Souness after we'd beaten his expensively assembled but ultimately bobbins Newcastle side "There was only one team trying to play football out there today" and likewise O'Leary at Villa "Kevin Davies bullied my centre backs today". It then just became a convenient tag for those that felt that they were under-achieving to rubbish us with.

[Sponge]

No one's mentioned Anelka!

[KeyserSoze]

Or Florent Laville

[Worthy4England]

- Was Allardyce's style of football as bad as the media/other fans tended to portray it?

A lot of it came from Arsenal fans, who's raison d'etre was to tippy tappy their way to winning nothing.

Hmm. Not sure about that. I thought that in the main it came from shit managers like Greame Souness after we'd beaten his expensively assembled but ultimately bobbins Newcastle side "There was only one team trying to play football out there today" and likewise O'Leary at Villa "Kevin Davies bullied my centre backs today". It then just became a convenient tag for those that felt that they were under-achieving to rubbish us with.

Been trying to work out "when it all started" - just for interest rather than to prove a point. The nearest I can some was at the end of the 2002/3 season. Martin Samuel did a piece n the Times saying how bad it would be for football if Bolton stayed up and West Ham went down.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... ze-me.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www2.newsquest.co.uk/lancashire/ ... DSCH5.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably the first time we'd been the focus of a full "debate" on tellybox from a load of Southern journos. It was great watching that last game in a bar in Corfu sat next to a West Ham fan...

O'Dreary and Souness certainly added to it - I'm struggling to find the first "long ball Bolton" article. Once it was determined that was the way to play it, West Ham and Arsenal fans amongst others just band waggoned it. Gobshites.

[bobo the clown]

The 'long-ball' stuff came from Souness after a match v Newcastle. Obviously we'd won and he went off on one.

Stat's a few days later showed we'd actually played less 'long-ball' than Newcastle had, but the damage was done.

Apologies that this is from the Guardian, but needs must.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/200 ... t.comment2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.nufc.com/html/2004-10-31bolton-a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Graeme Souness scowled and muttered:

"We knew what to expect when we came here and we got it. They try and intimidate you with set plays and it has worked for them because they've got the win.

"Okocha must have sore arms after the number of throws he launched into the area. It is not pretty, they launch balls into the area from every set piece, but they are fourth in table so it's working for them.

"I'd love to be able to say that style of football has died out, but they are high up in the league so they will be pleased with how they play because it has proven to be effective.

"But, for me, there is not enough good football being played out there. There wasn't anything pretty in this match for me. It is all about results, though, at the end of the day and I'm just disappointed we've lost the game.

"We'd worked all week on dealing with their set plays. They throw plenty of bodies into the box and hope something comes from it. We defended well except for two occasions in the second half and they scored from both of them."

"We would have liked to have played more football but we were not allowed to. They played their way and fair play to them. We learned on Sunday that we can match teams for effort but nobody will get an easy game at the Reebok, and that was the case for us.

"It would not have been unfair for us to have left with a point, but now we will just have to see how we respond. We coped quite well with some of their long ball stuff and the high balls into the box, but on the two occasions we didn't deal with them we were punished and that's frustrating.

"You have to be up for the challenge here or you get bullied off the park. I felt that didn’t happen and we are disappointed. We had to battle with them all the way and they’ve got the break on the day. We defended very well throughout but just conceded two very, very poor goals. The way they play you are always under pressure and there wasn’t a lot of football out there.

"I’m not being critical of anyone and am expecting a positive response from the players. I always said I would find out more about my players when they lost a game than when they were winning the whole time.

In this business you get punched on the nose and you get kicked where it hurts. That has happened today, but we have to get over it and get back on our feet for Thursday. Nobody will get an easy game coming to Bolton Wanderers this season. I don't think it would have been a terrible event if we had left here with a share of the points, but they just shaded it."

They Said

Sam Allardyce sniped back:
"Poor old Graeme, he is knackered because little old Bolton have beaten his big Newcastle United, but he should just comment on his own team and not mine.

"I'm not happy with what he has said. We were too good for him today, that is what he should be worried about, not how we play our football.

"At every level of this game, be it Premiership, Champions League or World Cup, 90pc of games are decided by set pieces and so we work very hard to make sure the players here are effective in that area.

We have beaten Newcastle and we nullified all their attacking threats as well. They only scored from a sensational strike by Darren Ambrose because we defended so well. Graeme gets passionate about things, but he should just be concerned with his team.

"He should be saying we were too good for them."

[bobo the clown]

A broader answer to the overall questions .... they were great days. We punched above or weight and did more than merely survive for a long time and the collapse, maybe inevitable some day, had no need to have occurred so completely.

The football was based on functionality insomuch as Allardyce developed and perfected the "pressing game" based on "the second ball". That utilised a special strength that Keven Davies had. So it did become a trademark and elements of that weren't as pretty as we'd all like but it was effective .... and was not all we had in our armoury.

As pointed out already, during this period Bolton Wanderers employed the magnificent skills of such as Youri Djorkaev, Fernando Hierro, Ivan Campo, Stelios, Ricardo Gardner, Abdoulaye Faye, Bruno N'Gotty, Nicolas Anelka, J-J Okocha (who was so good they named him twice), Gary Speed, El-Hadji Diouf, Tal Ben Haim, Jussi Jaaskelainen. I know they were well paid, but they all engaged in the project as well. They felt they were part of something .... and they were ... and it was magnificent.

Anyone who fails to see that and moans that "Bolton were just a latter-day Wimbledon" is an idiot and never actually watched us with anything like an open mind.

Hierro, sadly only with us one season, is in my view the finest footballer I have ever seen live, even at that age. I can't even imagine how good he must have been at his peak.

There are some criticisms :
1. His transfers, as mentioned, had more "what the hell's" than "wows", but the fails were always rapidly shipped out. The "wows" remain in our minds.
2. His "Mr. Angry" act did get a bit tedious and I'm sure a greater charm may have won us more friends and had referees less against us ... and they were against us. It did him no favours in his ambition to manage England. (see 4, also)
3. There was too little focus given to youth development, meaning that we ate what we earned every year so when it did end the cupboard was bare.
4. The inferred stench of dodgy dealing failed to go away and still now makes us wonder. Sad, but true.

He has an ego the size of a planet, but he has some reason to.

It wasn't all roses, but they were great times and we may never see the like again.


You asked for significant memories ... there any many, many but my fave was ; for Hierro's final ever match after a glittering career he booked out a huge area of the West Stand and had his family and friends, many ex-players and legends he's played with and against. We beat Everton on that last day and it had obviously been arranged with Sam that he'd be substituted 5 minutes before the end so he could grandstand his exit. His number was raised and the ground stood in ovation (except the Everton fans, always lacking in grace some who'd stood throughout actually sat down for that minutes ... tosser). He shook hands and did hugs with team mates, the referee came over and shook his hand, a few Everton players did .... except Duncan Ferguson who tried to speed matters up and came over to shove him off the pitch. To no effect thankfully and he left the arena to an ovation I'll never forget.

[Jugs]

I got bored of Big Sam's football during his last season here (06/07). It was the last time I had a season ticket and despite finishing 7th that year, some of the games were just utterly dire. We were chasing a Champs League spot with Everton around early April, and they came here and drew 1-1 and it was an absolutely awful game, nothing like you'd expect from two teams going for a top four finish. The excitement had gone. Nothing can top the home game v Blackburn the year before though. It was a local derby that ended 0-0 and it was horrendous and stultifying to watch. Awful.

With that said, there were definitely some great times, no doubt about it. Players like Okocha, Djorkaeff and Campo were magnificent and I doubt we'll see another era like it here for a long, long time. Fond memories include the climax to the 01/02 season, Okocha's goal v West Ham, the relegation of Leeds, qualifying for Europe, playing Marseille, embarrassing Arsenal.

Like all things, though, it eventually lost its magic and the act of trying to put one over the big teams eventually led to us playing like that in every game until we got sussed out and got battered a number of times towards the end of Allardyce's tenure.

[nelson66]

Ibrahim Ba - the french megastar signed for us, and was deemed not good enough and booted out in less than 12 months
Mario Jardell - golden boot winner - also given the boot for not being good enough to play for the wanderers

Allardayce was the best manager we have ever had - he wasnt perfect but why go looking for the bad when the good stuff outweighed it by so much

He has improved every club hes been at since he left us. A very special manager

I was also at the Everton game where Hierro hung up his boots. A very emotional end to the game, a special moment for those who were there and understood its meaning.

I hope the article you write takes note of all the positives you get on here, and that you're not going to try to do another hatchet job on him

[TANGODANCER]

the referee came over and shook his hand, a few Everton players did .... except Duncan Ferguson who tried to speed matters up and came over to shove him off the pitch. To no effect thankfully and he left the arena to an ovation I'll never forget.

Ah,I was so enjoying the reminiscing till you mentioned that xxxx.

[Hoboh]

A broader answer to the overall questions .... they were great days. We punched above or weight and did more than merely survive for a long time and the collapse, maybe inevitable some day, had no need to have occurred so completely.

The football was based on functionality insomuch as Allardyce developed and perfected the "pressing game" based on "the second ball". That utilised a special strength that Keven Davies had. So it did become a trademark and elements of that weren't as pretty as we'd all like but it was effective .... and was not all we had in our armoury.

As pointed out already, during this period Bolton Wanderers employed the magnificent skills of such as Youri Djorkaev, Fernando Hierro, Ivan Campo, Stelios, Ricardo Gardner, Abdoulaye Faye, Bruno N'Gotty, Nicolas Anelka, J-J Okocha (who was so good they named him twice), Gary Speed, El-Hadji Diouf, Tal Ben Haim, Jussi Jaaskelainen. I know they were well paid, but they all engaged in the project as well. They felt they were part of something .... and they were ... and it was magnificent.

Anyone who fails to see that and moans that "Bolton were just a latter-day Wimbledon" is an idiot and never actually watched us with anything like an open mind.

Hierro, sadly only with us one season, is in my view the finest footballer I have ever seen live, even at that age. I can't even imagine how good he must have been at his peak.

There are some criticisms :
1. His transfers, as mentioned, had more "what the hell's" than "wows", but the fails were always rapidly shipped out. The "wows" remain in our minds.
2. His "Mr. Angry" act did get a bit tedious and I'm sure a greater charm may have won us more friends and had referees less against us ... and they were against us. It did him no favours in his ambition to manage England. (see 4, also)
3. There was too little focus given to youth development, meaning that we ate what we earned every year so when it did end the cupboard was bare.
4. The inferred stench of dodgy dealing failed to go away and still now makes us wonder. Sad, but true.

He has an ego the size of a planet, but he has some reason to.

It wasn't all roses, but they were great times and we may never see the like again.


You asked for significant memories ... there any many, many but my fave was ; for Hierro's final ever match after a glittering career he booked out a huge area of the West Stand and had his family and friends, many ex-players and legends he's played with and against. We beat Everton on that last day and it had obviously been arranged with Sam that he'd be substituted 5 minutes before the end so he could grandstand his exit. His number was raised and the ground stood in ovation (except the Everton fans, always lacking in grace some who'd stood throughout actually sat down for that minutes ... tosser). He shook hands and did hugs with team mates, the referee came over and shook his hand, a few Everton players did .... except Duncan Ferguson who tried to speed matters up and came over to shove him off the pitch. To no effect thankfully and he left the arena to an ovation I'll never forget.

I agree with most of what you said except the bit in bold, embarrassingly as a kid my uncle used to take me to Old Trafford when the Whites were away (He was actually a Bolton fan though) and I had the privilege of seeing Best in his peak, TBF he's the finest I've ever seen, the nearest to him is Messi and I honestly don't know how he would have coped with the cloggers around then.

[Worthy4England]

as a kid my uncle used to take me to Old Trafford

I knew there was something strange going on. A lot has just become clear to me.

[TANGODANCER]

All summed up by "If we didn't have a manger, would you have Sam Allardyce back?" In my case, definitely yes.

And for what it's worth, even including Roberto Carlos's amazing banana shots, J.J.Okocha's free kick against Aston Villa was the finest strike of a dead ball I've even seen in my whole life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwLAEnlO0zU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

as a kid my uncle used to take me to Old Trafford

I knew there was something strange going on. A lot has just become clear to me.

Being economical with a quote Worthy? by God your learning

[Worthy4England]

as a kid my uncle used to take me to Old Trafford

I knew there was something strange going on. A lot has just become clear to me.

Being economical with a quote Worthy? by God your learning