The Politics Thread

[Lord Kangana]

Which neatly sums up what we're up against.

Look I fail to see what the problem is with folk like you?
If you feel so bad about paying for all the pond life that seems to have multiplied many, many, times in the last few generations under both the 'left' and 'right' I am quite sure there is a nice little charity box with the buy a six pack for a chav somewhere.
What really pisses me and a lot of others off is what right do you think you have to tell us we have to pay for them too?
Labour arsed about with being Multi-Culti, now we have towns within towns, people who think more of conflict overseas and over stretch and add massive cost to our security bill.
There are estates where benefits are the life style, kids are taught to hate the law, school and education is a waste of time, they are 'entitled' to anything just by nature of their mothers wide open legs on a drunken night out, and you expect us to pay for all this?
Labour will be a long time in the wilderness if this is the case!

And yet all he said was we should pay tax.

Does Farage say we shouldn't?

[Prufrock]

Corbyn is v good on articulating the social contract.

Is it actually the case, or does it just seem to be, that a disconcertingly high number of people are quite happy to come out with stuff that basically says "I hate tax and like hospitals. I'll have that option please."?

Overheard a conversation in the pub the other day where everyone talked about how inconvenient tax is. No shit. And this was in Islingtonia!

[thebish]

Oh goody, thank you Mr Corbyn. Does that mean we can finally tell all the feckless baby breeding, never worked, Stella swigging chavs to fcuk off they aren't entitled to 'owt?

what's eric pickles done to annoy you now?

[Hoboh]

Which neatly sums up what we're up against.

Look I fail to see what the problem is with folk like you?
If you feel so bad about paying for all the pond life that seems to have multiplied many, many, times in the last few generations under both the 'left' and 'right' I am quite sure there is a nice little charity box with the buy a six pack for a chav somewhere.
What really pisses me and a lot of others off is what right do you think you have to tell us we have to pay for them too?
Labour arsed about with being Multi-Culti, now we have towns within towns, people who think more of conflict overseas and over stretch and add massive cost to our security bill.
There are estates where benefits are the life style, kids are taught to hate the law, school and education is a waste of time, they are 'entitled' to anything just by nature of their mothers wide open legs on a drunken night out, and you expect us to pay for all this?
Labour will be a long time in the wilderness if this is the case!

And yet all he said was we should pay tax.

Does Farage say we shouldn't?

Labours problem with the electorate it needs is not the paying tax aspect, more of how it spends it!

[Hoboh]

Oh goody, thank you Mr Corbyn. Does that mean we can finally tell all the feckless baby breeding, never worked, Stella swigging chavs to fcuk off they aren't entitled to 'owt?

what's eric pickles done to annoy you now?

I get wound up by the Labour right trying to be Tory lite and the looney left wanting us to pay up for the scrote activists that infest life (if they can be arsed coming off the street corners or getting out of bed!)

[thebish]

farage has gone a bit quiet? yesterday's man, perchance?

[Hoboh]

farage has gone a bit quiet? yesterday's man, perchance?

The EU is doing a decent self destruct job on it's own at the moment, now't wrong in letting it stew a while

[Bijou Bob]

It's looking more and more like Corbyn is The Chosen One. This could get very interesting, not to mention amusing.

[Lord Kangana]

Corbyn is v good on articulating the social contract.

Is it actually the case, or does it just seem to be, that a disconcertingly high number of people are quite happy to come out with stuff that basically says "I hate tax and like hospitals. I'll have that option please."?

Overheard a conversation in the pub the other day where everyone talked about how inconvenient tax is. No shit. And this was in Islingtonia!

The answer, sadly, is yes, until it directly affects the individual concerned. At which point they blame immigrants or chavs or something.

Interestingly, I attended a lecture by (I forget his name) by a Cambridge Professor a couple of months ago about current statistics on tax, the welfare state etc. He made it glaringly obvious that the public perception (egged on by politicians of a certain stripe, no prizes) is that the welfare state is draining us, yet the statistics show it to be very efficient, and actually fantastic value for money. He also pointed out, again perhaps contrary to public opinion, that tax fraud in this country (not really on the agenda) accounts for multiple, multiple billions of pounds more than welfare spending, and indeed the tiny amount of welfare fraud.

He demonstrated that Government time and expenditure spent on tackling tax fraud would be about 127 times more effective than any further welfare cuts.

But then, that doesn't fit either perception on our side of the equation, or dogma on the side of the politicians. Sad really.

[Hoboh]

Corbyn is v good on articulating the social contract.

Is it actually the case, or does it just seem to be, that a disconcertingly high number of people are quite happy to come out with stuff that basically says "I hate tax and like hospitals. I'll have that option please."?

Overheard a conversation in the pub the other day where everyone talked about how inconvenient tax is. No shit. And this was in Islingtonia!

The answer, sadly, is yes, until it directly affects the individual concerned. At which point they blame immigrants or chavs or something.

Interestingly, I attended a lecture by (I forget his name) by a Cambridge Professor a couple of months ago about current statistics on tax, the welfare state etc. He made it glaringly obvious that the public perception (egged on by politicians of a certain stripe, no prizes) is that the welfare state is draining us, yet the statistics show it to be very efficient, and actually fantastic value for money. He also pointed out, again perhaps contrary to public opinion, that tax fraud in this country (not really on the agenda) accounts for multiple, multiple billions of pounds more than welfare spending, and indeed the tiny amount of welfare fraud.

He demonstrated that Government time and expenditure spent on tackling tax fraud would be about 127 times more effective than any further welfare cuts.

But then, that doesn't fit either perception on our side of the equation, or dogma on the side of the politicians. Sad really.

The prof is spot on, although the chavs, pond life and non contributing migrants don't help.
I in the if business bleats about paying it's fair share or threatens to pull out, let them go, ban their goods and services and just wait for rivals and new business to replace the slack!

[Prufrock]

Sorry, I wrote that badly. I meant it seems to be getting worse. Less than ever do people seem to recognise that taxes are a necessary evil if you want schools and hospitals!

Preaching to the choir on the rest.

[Lord Kangana]

I would say they are being driven in that direction by the agenda they're being fed that's probably even beyond supra-national.

Part of the North America/EU trade agreement that has been signed limits, I believe, state spending and state influence over a whole raft of things - to avoid competition with private enterprise (yes, to avoid competition with private enterprise, you'd need George Orwell to be writing half this shit). It came as no great shock that Osborne announced to the world a huge shrinking of The State by 40%.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Sorry, I wrote that badly. I meant it seems to be getting worse. Less than ever do people seem to recognise that taxes are a necessary evil if you want schools and hospitals!

Preaching to the choir on the rest.

Living somewhere that doesn't have taxes, well they do, but not your income tax and VAT etc. I can honestly say that taxation is a good thing. The amount folk have to spend on education and the health insurance lottery is ridiculous. There is no back up, no support...nothing. Fall behind in payments or bounce a cheque and it's jail time until you pay up, which is kinda hard when you're not working because you're in prison! Nobody likes paying taxes, but as long as they're spent properly they are a very good thing.

[Harry Genshaw]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

[bobo the clown]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I'm rather taking to her then. AND she has quite a nice arse. What more could you want from a female politician ?

But c'mon Jeremy. I very much want him to win.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I'm a bit confused by this, Harry. By the 'Balfour treaty' do they mean the Balfour Declaration of 1917? In this he simply wrote:

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.[

This is ancient history - why would anyone pledge support for it? Or is it some other "treaty" they refer to, since the Declaration was not a treaty. Surely this is now irrelevant to the Middle East after the UN creation of the State of Israel in 1948. That is the relevant legal instrument. Further the UN recognition of Palestine is quite in keeping with what Balfour wrote. Has everyone been mesmerized by an overdose of Netanyahu?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I'm rather taking to her then. AND she has quite a nice are. What more could you want from a female politician ?

But c'mon Jeremy. I very much want him to win.

Does she roll it or summat?

[bobo the clown]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I'm rather taking to her then. AND she has quite a nice arse. What more could you want from a female politician ?

But c'mon Jeremy. I very much want him to win.

Does she roll it or summat?

not any more.

[Prufrock]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I don't think anybody said anything mad

My own views are closest to what Corbyn came out with, but the idea there's one viewpoint on Israel that's obviously the right one seems a bit simplistic to me!

[Prufrock]

Well if I needed another reason to vote for Corbyn the other 3 divs have just provided it. All pledged their support for Israel and the Balfour treaty. Kendall even went further condemning the UN recognising Palestine.

I'm a bit confused by this, Harry. By the 'Balfour treaty' do they mean the Balfour Declaration of 1917? In this he simply wrote:

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.[

This is ancient history - why would anyone pledge support for it? Or is it some other "treaty" they refer to, since the Declaration was not a treaty. Surely this is now irrelevant to the Middle East after the UN creation of the State of Israel in 1948. That is the relevant legal instrument. Further the UN recognition of Palestine is quite in keeping with what Balfour wrote. Has everyone been mesmerized by an overdose of Netanyahu?

The question was whether to celebrate the hundred year anniversary in 2017 .