2015/16 pre-season

[StaffsTrotter]

Vela was good first half but the second passed him by until about five minutes before he was subbed. Trotter lost possession in the most embarrassing of fashion but about 15 seconds later the ball was in their net for madine's second. Other than that he was as ok. Danns looked in good, combative shape. Feeney was feeney. You'll either get a good shift and a bit of end result or a good shift and absolute garbage. Tonight was the latter. Dobbie impressed when he came on. The right back struggled to cope with their tricky winger but held his own for the most part. Moxey was garbage but i imagine it's hard to play one of the key positions on the field without a regular wing partner. That being said it'd help if he could make a pass. Just one pass, so he could at least justify putting his boots on. Derik and Dervitte spells danger but we go with what we've got. Madine took his goals well, capitalising on some league 1 defending. Didn't see much else from him but two goals ain't to be sniffed at.
11 days before the big kick off and we're still playing trialists and our young, hungry attacking talents are injured and nowhere to be seen. Hold on to your hats!

Harsh on Moxey there Dr. Thought both our full backs had testing matches, simply because of midfield was so narrow and allowed them to overload. Probably didn't help that our starting MidF were all right footed central midfielders who didn't naturally provide width, partic on the left. Both our FBs were also expected to provide the overlap.

Tin hat time, but I'm thinking that our best combo down the left is Ream and Moxey

[BWFC_Insane]

Mildly worrying that Lennon says we haven't done any set piece work yet. I'm sure Allardyce used to do a set piece session most days during pre-season and Ferguson used to say set piece work was second only to fitness in terms of importance pre-season.

Given we are terrible at set pieces it would have been good if we'd done some work on them before now I'd have thought. They can make all the difference.

[StaffsTrotter]

Mildly worrying that Lennon says we haven't done any set piece work yet. I'm sure Allardyce used to do a set piece session most days during pre-season and Ferguson used to say set piece work was second only to fitness in terms of importance pre-season.

Given we are terrible at set pieces it would have been good if we'd done some work on them before now I'd have thought. They can make all the difference.

was surprising comment, but didn't megson's pre-season seemingly comprise of only that - particulary jussi hoofing to superkev

thought derik in his austria interview, made an interesting, almost cliched continental comment, that he was more used to sessions working with the ball, but I assume at that stage it was more about the sweat

guess all these aspects are to be covered, just a matter of emphasis. Fwiw with Mills gone, unless Wheater plays we don't seem to have much threat at corners. Did like the corners Dobbie took last night though - fast, flat and inswinging.

and welcome back Insane

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Good report, DR H, ta.

If "Derik and Dervite spells danger", who would people like to see come in – Wheater or Ream? For whom? Or both?

Twardzik has spent most of his career (FWIW) in central midfield... the area that Lennon rightly noted is overstaffed, the area that still is overstaffed.

Twice now that we're heard about Wilson struggling against a lower-division winger. Which isn't good.

Also share the worry about set-piece work (or lack thereof) - that comment may bite Lennon in the arse. Really really hope not.

[danardif1]

It's hard to say without having seen them play together but instinctively I'd say that Wheater and Derik would be our most solid CB pairing with Ream at LB.

I think Wilson is just an available RB rather than an outright choice and we do need a specialist there rather than having to resort to Vela as per last season. There's probably a reason he was let go by Charlton and farmed out to Rotherham late last season as well.

I'm not that worried about the lack of set piece work if it's part of the plan to use the time they do spend on it on targeting specific teams, so they have a plan for Derby etc. It would make sense to delay that work until nearer the time if that's the case...

[bobo the clown]

If we over-plan for specific teams then we're back to worrying about the opposition rather than have them worry about us. Not, in my view, a positive way to go.

.... & I am truly shocked if we aren't prepping set pieces. Both attacking and defending them. That can't be accurate.

[BWFC_Insane]

The test for Lennon this season is to organise us. Last season we were shambolic at the start and the end. Yes we had injuries but we looked like a team of players who'd never clapped eyes on each other. We need to be very effective on set pieces both ends of the pitch. And we need to be able to defend long punts forward that last season we struggled with massively, especially towards the end of games. If we are tight and give nothing away we have dangerous players in Clough, Davies and seemingly Madine to do damage. Possibly Clayton later on too.

But we cannot be sloppy or give cheap goals away again because simply we aren't going to dominate possession in many matches. Personally I only worry about two areas, up front and centre half. Up front we're reliant again on one man in Madine. With no backup. And if Heskey and Dobbie do sign, very old and uninspiring back up. Centre back I really worry about. Dervite might come good. Derik for me is a strange signing. Might be a good player but didn't we need a solid, experienced centre half who grabs our back four by the throat and drags them through? Wheater could be if he stays fit and develops an ability to move. And Ream is just Ream, looks great for 99% of the game until a critical moment when he loses a header or gets beaten too easily.

All in all, we had a soft centre all last season and only looked a proper side when Craig Davies was fit. Sadly I think it looks likely we will have the same issues, relying on one main striker and hoping we can perm a solid centre half partnership from somewhere.

For anyone who has seen more of Quade Taylor than me, could he be the answer longer term? Bits I've seen of him I quite like. Also this Finney seems to be getting decent reviews. We definitely need a young defender to step up to the plate as Vela and Clough have.

[Dr Hotdog]

Good report, DR H, ta.

If "Derik and Dervite spells danger", who would people like to see come in – Wheater or Ream? For whom? Or both?

Twardzik has spent most of his career (FWIW) in central midfield... the area that Lennon rightly noted is overstaffed, the area that still is overstaffed.

Twice now that we're heard about Wilson struggling against a lower-division winger. Which isn't good.

Also share the worry about set-piece work (or lack thereof) - that comment may bite Lennon in the arse. Really really hope not.

Dunno about Derik, I'm not convinced he should be starting against Derby. It might be the breaking of him. Or the making of. Neither really inspired confidence like Gudni or Gerry did back in the day. Big hard bastards you don't mess with. Derik was up against a big unit last night and struggled a lot. He got turned a couple of times when someone ran at him too and would have seen red for a blatant drag-back when their big lad got the wrong side and was through on goal. As for Dervit. Same old same old. I'm really not sure what the answer to the centre halves is when there are still issues with the full-backs. Wheater wont play for us until September I wouldn't think. Couple of development squad outings next month and see where he's at. Ream has played on and off for the US over the summer so he should be ready come next week. I'd be tempted to throw him in at left back ahead of The Real Mox. Then again, a 'settled' back 4 featuring last night's line-up and whoever rolls out on Friday night would probably be more favourable.

The main issue is movement off the ball when we're in possession. Only Davies offered it in the opposition half when we're playing it on the deck. Madine and Feeney didn't really drop into space, it's not their game - that's Clayton and Clough territory. Perhaps Pratley too.

I'm worried because we've not got a fully fit squad after a pre-season regime. Could have done with Walker and Clough giving us some hope. Bit telling that Clough hasn't tweeted anything since that opening pre-season fixture on July 11th.

Tzwardik – See Philip Neville against Romania in Euro 2000. A left-back he is not and never will be.

As for the set-pieces remark. Bit strange to say the least!

[freeindeed]

I think after so many injuries, he has focused everything onto preparing his squad physically for the season.

[bobo the clown]

Back in his club football management days Terry Venables said that over half of goals came via set pieces both scoring & conceding. So, once your players are fit you should spend an inordinate amount of time on them.

I know he was a flash-Harry but I've never found any reason to disagree with that.

[danardif1]

Back in his club football management days Terry Venables said that over half of goals came via set pieces both scoring & conceding. So, once your players are fit you should spend an inordinate amount of time on them.

I know he was a flash-Harry but I've never found any reason to disagree with that.

Except corners, which have one of the lowest correlations between set pieces taken and goals scored.

[StaffsTrotter]

Good report, DR H, ta.

If "Derik and Dervite spells danger", who would people like to see come in – Wheater or Ream? For whom? Or both?

Twardzik has spent most of his career (FWIW) in central midfield... the area that Lennon rightly noted is overstaffed, the area that still is overstaffed.

Twice now that we're heard about Wilson struggling against a lower-division winger. Which isn't good.

Also share the worry about set-piece work (or lack thereof) - that comment may bite Lennon in the arse. Really really hope not.

Dunno about Derik, I'm not convinced he should be starting against Derby. It might be the breaking of him. Or the making of. Neither really inspired confidence like Gudni or Gerry did back in the day. Big hard bastards you don't mess with. Derik was up against a big unit last night and struggled a lot. He got turned a couple of times when someone ran at him too and would have seen red for a blatant drag-back when their big lad got the wrong side and was through on goal. As for Dervit. Same old same old. I'm really not sure what the answer to the centre halves is when there are still issues with the full-backs. Wheater wont play for us until September I wouldn't think. Couple of development squad outings next month and see where he's at. Ream has played on and off for the US over the summer so he should be ready come next week. I'd be tempted to throw him in at left back ahead of The Real Mox. Then again, a 'settled' back 4 featuring last night's line-up and whoever rolls out on Friday night would probably be more favourable.

The main issue is movement off the ball when we're in possession. Only Davies offered it in the opposition half when we're playing it on the deck. Madine and Feeney didn't really drop into space, it's not their game - that's Clayton and Clough territory. Perhaps Pratley too.

I'm worried because we've not got a fully fit squad after a pre-season regime. Could have done with Walker and Clough giving us some hope. Bit telling that Clough hasn't tweeted anything since that opening pre-season fixture on July 11th.

Tzwardik – See Philip Neville against Romania in Euro 2000. A left-back he is not and never will be.

As for the set-pieces remark. Bit strange to say the least!

Still think its about trying to find the right midfield balance that protects the back and supports the front and makes both ends look better. Whilst we keep takling about lack of depth, we do have a lot of MF players (all central) competing for not many places - all of whom at one stage or another have been thought as 1st choice or promising youngster to be accomodated (ok except Trotter). We have little natural width and what we do have, feeney and walker, don't inspire too much confidence from me.
I said in the season prediction thread, I don't think we have enough dominant steely characters who grab hold of a game. Thought Spearing showed a bit of that last night, but I fear he may not be in the 1st xi

[Harry Genshaw]

Back in his club football management days Terry Venables said that over half of goals came via set pieces both scoring & conceding. So, once your players are fit you should spend an inordinate amount of time on them.

I know he was a flash-Harry but I've never found any reason to disagree with that.

Our own BSA used to preach it frequently when he was with us about how some large percentage of goals (I forget how much) came from set pieces. Surely set pieces are the 'basics' those in football talk about?

[paleka12]

In regards to last nights game, i wasn't there, but from all the highlights that i've seen, dobbie has looked good, don't see why people are worried with that signing. Didn't see much of trotter, but was that him who assisted Madine second goal? If so that was a decent ball. I used to like Trotter at Milwall, and i really hope that he can prove us all wrong just like Madine has been doing, and same for pratley. And im sure you all wish the same as you just want success for the club.

[danardif1]

In regards to last nights game, i wasn't there, but from all the highlights that i've seen, dobbie has looked good, don't see why people are worried with that signing. Didn't see much of trotter, but was that him who assisted Madine second goal? If so that was a decent ball. I used to like Trotter at Milwall, and i really hope that he can prove us all wrong just like Madine has been doing, and same for pratley. And im sure you all wish the same as you just want success for the club.

It was Danns with the lovely cross... completely fooled the Port Vale defence as Madine and Feeney were basically queuing up to put that in the net.

His first goal was lovely as well, fantastic long ball from Derik (he's done that a couple of times now, seems to have an eye for a long pass) and a great finish. I hope Madine continues like this takes the next step up with us, because it's clear he has talent but perhaps the application hasn't been there before...

Trotter looked to be his usual self, flying late into a tackle in the first action of the highlights video, and then generally just meandering around not really doing much. The difference between him and someone like Pratley is that Pratley has always given 100% even if the quality hasn't been there, and that helped win the fans over (as well as returning the sort of form he showed in this division for Swansea).

[BWFC_Insane]

Lennon will have to get the best out of Trotter. He's played a lot of games at this level. He hasn't found any form here, but unless someone buys him we need to make him useful. I think Spearing and Medo are in the same boat. Big wages and we can't afford to just cast them aside, we must get the best out of them whilst they are here.

That is the challenge now for Lennon or any manager here. You won't be able to recreate the squad you want so the challenge is working with the few resources you have and existing ones here.

Pratley a good example of how a player can be brought back to form and how good that can be.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Pratley a good example of how a player can be brought back to form and how good that can be.

...and for that Lennon deserves a round of applause so hard it makes our hands red.

Doing the same with Trotter might be beyond him but it would be nice to raise the guy above "roundly derided liability".

Medo he obviously doesn't like at all and would rather go away - another man's failed buy, as Freedman would rather Mears and Mills had gone away. Interestingly, Freedman was forced to rehabilitate Mills into his plans; Spearing might be the same for Lennon, if we can't get rid of him. (Lennon is already cleverly saying that the door isn't closed: "He will get a chance. I haven’t written Jay off at all. Last season he had to go out to Blackburn and play because it wasn’t doing him any good being on the sidelines, but he’s come back, his attitude has always been good, and the door is wide open for him.”)

I don't know what wages Medo is on but I'd guarantee it's less than Spearing – who was signed from a top-six club he loved, after a successful loan spell, to be captain, before the financial f*cktastrophe really hit.

Wages-wise, I'd wager (heh) it's:
Spearing >>>>>>>Medo>>>>>>>>Trotter.

Which would mean that while it would be preferable to shift Trotter, or even better Medo (whom Lennon appears to only play in a crisis), if we are to afford anyone like ALF or a full-back wanted by anybody else, we could really really do with getting Jay off the budget. And I don't think that will happen until late August, probably in a loan deal; the hope is that we get as high as possible a percentage of his wage paid by the borrowers, and that we have time (and targets) to spend the wage-savings on.

I think ALF would love to come back, just as the Juke would last summer. We keep finding good strikers, but they aren't ours and we can't afford 'em - that's the risk with successful loanees...

[danardif1]

Didn't Lennon say he'd been interested in signing Trotter when he was at Celtic... there must be something there if that's true, but at the moment it looks like he's out of form and doesn't really care, whereas Pratley did at least put every ounce of effort into his performances.

In our situation though we need to be getting the best out of our less expensive players because they ultimately form the backbone of the squad. They are the ones we are keeping around whilst trying to find other clubs to take on our higher earners to free up some wages. If we can get some decent football out of the lower earners at the same time it really helps us overall, which is why Lennon has to include Trotter, Twardzik etc in his plans because they're going to be around for the whole season unless something extraordinary happens and they can't improve or get back into form without playing time under their belts.

[Montreal Wanderer]

In regards to last nights game, i wasn't there, but from all the highlights that i've seen, dobbie has looked good, don't see why people are worried with that signing. Didn't see much of trotter, but was that him who assisted Madine second goal? If so that was a decent ball. I used to like Trotter at Milwall, and i really hope that he can prove us all wrong just like Madine has been doing, and same for pratley. And im sure you all wish the same as you just want success for the club.

It was Danns with the lovely cross... completely fooled the Port Vale defence as Madine and Feeney were basically queuing up to put that in the net.

His first goal was lovely as well, fantastic long ball from Derik (he's done that a couple of times now, seems to have an eye for a long pass) and a great finish. I hope Madine continues like this takes the next step up with us, because it's clear he has talent but perhaps the application hasn't been there before...

Trotter looked to be his usual self, flying late into a tackle in the first action of the highlights video, and then generally just meandering around not really doing much. The difference between him and someone like Pratley is that Pratley has always given 100% even if the quality hasn't been there, and that helped win the fans over (as well as returning the sort of form he showed in this division for Swansea).

IMHO the first time he just hoofed it and it fell fortuitously. Against Port Vale he clearly looked, picked his man and spot, and executed well. I could hear the crowd at PV but could not see any of them - kind of eerie. I guess we are not a big draw.

[Prufrock]

Just watched the highlights.

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