The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

He attempted to answer questions about anti-semitism (I don't think anyone genuinely thinks he personally is anti-semitic, but that he's too close to people who are and he'll get burnt by it) here: http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/14265 ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, even being very generous and granting that it seems to have been dashed off in a rush by an intern copying the question out in the answer, it's not particularly convincing.

the whole charade sickens me... does anyone seriously think Corbyn is racist? no..
answer: dig up people he has met in umpteen years of being an MP and imply that becasue he has met people, he shares all their views..

Bobo has met me - that makes him a lunatic pinko fanatic, and it makes me a smug tory poster-boy, presumably!

me? I'd much rather have a politician who has met a wide range of people - who has got stuck in over his career - I'd much rather that than someone who has met nobody except fellow labour party-spin doctors and special advisors...

Two points:

1) I think the questions are fair enough. It's not just people he has "met". Raed Salah for example is a thoroughly awful wanker but when he came over here and was arrested on the orders of the Home Office (it turned out unfairly) there was nothing wrong with Jez pointing out that he shouldn't have arrested. There was plenty wrong in Jez then calling him an "honoured citizen" and inviting him for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons. I don't think Corbyn is racist, but I do think either he can't spot a racist, or if he can, he doesn't seem to have any problem cozying up to them. That's something people are perfectly entitled to be concerned about.

2) Even if it is all bollocks and he did act properly and simply met these people whilst going around being a good guy, he's going to get stuffed by it. He's got some skeletons in his closet, and true or not, being labelled a terrorist-lover will do for him.

[BWFC_Insane]

He attempted to answer questions about anti-semitism (I don't think anyone genuinely thinks he personally is anti-semitic, but that he's too close to people who are and he'll get burnt by it) here: http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/14265 ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, even being very generous and granting that it seems to have been dashed off in a rush by an intern copying the question out in the answer, it's not particularly convincing.

the whole charade sickens me... does anyone seriously think Corbyn is racist? no..
answer: dig up people he has met in umpteen years of being an MP and imply that becasue he has met people, he shares all their views..

Bobo has met me - that makes him a lunatic pinko fanatic, and it makes me a smug tory poster-boy, presumably!

me? I'd much rather have a politician who has met a wide range of people - who has got stuck in over his career - I'd much rather that than someone who has met nobody except fellow labour party-spin doctors and special advisors...

Two points:

1) I think the questions are fair enough. It's not just people he has "met". Raed Salah for example is a thoroughly awful wanker but when he came over here and was arrested on the orders of the Home Office (it turned out unfairly) there was nothing wrong with Jez pointing out that he shouldn't have arrested. There was plenty wrong in Jez then calling him an "honoured citizen" and inviting him for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons. I don't think Corbyn is racist, but I do think either he can't spot a racist, or if he can, he doesn't seem to have any problem cozying up to them. That's something people are perfectly entitled to be concerned about.

2) Even if it is all bollocks and he did act properly and simply met these people whilst going around being a good guy, he's going to get stuffed by it. He's got some skeletons in his closet, and true or not, being labelled a terrorist-lover will do for him.

He won't need to be labelled that to be done for....

[thebish]

2) Even if it is all bollocks and he did act properly and simply met these people whilst going around being a good guy, he's going to get stuffed by it. He's got some skeletons in his closet, and true or not, being labelled a terrorist-lover will do for him.

I still think it's lame.

I agree it is what will be thrown at him - but that doesn't stop me thinking it's lame. If I am going to cast a vote it will be on the basis of what i believe about the person - not about what i think the media might try to smear that person with. I'd rather take that risk than vote for someone who has lived in such a careful and planned political cocoon never to have said or thought anything even mildly controversial or met anybody who might be seen as controversial. And I'd maintain my view that if you are going to be responsible for deciding the UK's response to complex issues - then it helps to have engaged with the ideas and the spectrum of "players" so that you can come to an informed view. I'd have the confidence that Corbyn has demonstrated enough personal integrity in his political life NOT to become a racist simply because he meets one or talks to one.

(BTW - Bobo hasn't just met me - he also has invited me for coffee in his house and I have met missus Bobo and sat in his conservatory - which, presumably, is a step too far and he is now tainted by my politics!!! No wonder he is so defensive nowadays! )

[Hoboh]

2) Even if it is all bollocks and he did act properly and simply met these people whilst going around being a good guy, he's going to get stuffed by it. He's got some skeletons in his closet, and true or not, being labelled a terrorist-lover will do for him.

I still think it's lame.

I agree it is what will be thrown at him - but that doesn't stop me thinking it's lame. If I am going to cast a vote it will be on the basis of what i believe about the person - not about what i think the media might try to smear that person with. I'd rather take that risk than vote for someone who has lived in such a careful and planned political cocoon never to have said or thought anything even mildly controversial or met anybody who might be seen as controversial. And I'd maintain my view that if you are going to be responsible for deciding the UK's response to complex issues - then it helps to have engaged with the ideas and the spectrum of "players" so that you can come to an informed view. I'd have the confidence that Corbyn has demonstrated enough personal integrity in his political life NOT to become a racist simply because he meets one or talks to one.

(BTW - Bobo hasn't just met me - he also has invited me for coffee in his house and I have met missus Bobo and sat in his conservatory - which, presumably, is a step too far and he is now tainted by my politics!!! No wonder he is so defensive nowadays! )

I'd invite you for lunch, but given all that dieting you were doing I doubt I'd get enough meat for a good stew!

[Prufrock]

2) Even if it is all bollocks and he did act properly and simply met these people whilst going around being a good guy, he's going to get stuffed by it. He's got some skeletons in his closet, and true or not, being labelled a terrorist-lover will do for him.

I still think it's lame.

I agree it is what will be thrown at him - but that doesn't stop me thinking it's lame. If I am going to cast a vote it will be on the basis of what i believe about the person - not about what i think the media might try to smear that person with. I'd rather take that risk than vote for someone who has lived in such a careful and planned political cocoon never to have said or thought anything even mildly controversial or met anybody who might be seen as controversial. And I'd maintain my view that if you are going to be responsible for deciding the UK's response to complex issues - then it helps to have engaged with the ideas and the spectrum of "players" so that you can come to an informed view. I'd have the confidence that Corbyn has demonstrated enough personal integrity in his political life NOT to become a racist simply because he meets one or talks to one.

(BTW - Bobo hasn't just met me - he also has invited me for coffee in his house and I have met missus Bobo and sat in his conservatory - which, presumably, is a step too far and he is now tainted by my politics!!! No wonder he is so defensive nowadays! )

You don't need to invite people for tea to find out their views. It's a fair criticism IMO. Cameron would rightly get pilloried if he invited Mugabe for tea.

[thebish]

You don't need to invite people for tea to find out their views. It's a fair criticism IMO. Cameron would rightly get pilloried if he invited Mugabe for tea.

Given that you've acknowledged that Corbyn is not a racist... what exactly is the charge you have against him?? a racist-sympathiser (surely that's just a racist) - an encourager/supporter of racists? (surely, that too would make him a racist?)

I'm unclear what bad thing you seem to think all of this represents in Corbyn.

[Prufrock]

You don't need to invite people for tea to find out their views. It's a fair criticism IMO. Cameron would rightly get pilloried if he invited Mugabe for tea.

Given that you've acknowledged that Corbyn is not a racist... what exactly is the charge you have against him?? a racist-sympathiser (surely that's just a racist) - an encourager/supporter of racists? (surely, that too would make him a racist?)

I'm unclear what bad thing you seem to think all of this represents in Corbyn.

He undoubtedly IS an encourager/ supporter of racists.

I don't agree that that necessarily means he's a racist himself. I still think it's bad.

I can't speak for Corbyn himself, but the thought process of many on that issue runs something like, "I know Raed Salah is a racist, and that's bad, but he's suffered at the hands of Israel and his people have been oppressed for decades and so I understand why he's turned out racist". Well no, f*ck that.

[thebish]

You don't need to invite people for tea to find out their views. It's a fair criticism IMO. Cameron would rightly get pilloried if he invited Mugabe for tea.

Given that you've acknowledged that Corbyn is not a racist... what exactly is the charge you have against him?? a racist-sympathiser (surely that's just a racist) - an encourager/supporter of racists? (surely, that too would make him a racist?)

I'm unclear what bad thing you seem to think all of this represents in Corbyn.

He undoubtedly IS an encourager/ supporter of racists.

I don't agree that that necessarily means he's a racist himself. I still think it's bad.

I can't speak for Corbyn himself, but the thought process of many on that issue runs something like, "I know Raed Salah is a racist, and that's bad, but he's suffered at the hands of Israel and his people have been oppressed for decades and so I understand why he's turned out racist". Well no, f*ck that.

I'm not sure what use your guessed "thought process of many" is when we are talking about Corbyn... have you heard or seen reports of Corbyn say anything like that??

If not, it's disingenuous to attribute your imagined thought process to Corbyn and then - on that basis - declare "no, f*ck that."

[Prufrock]

Handily I included the words "I can't speak for Corbyn himself".

Nevertheless he is an encourager/ supporter of racists. Whatever his reasoning, that's bad enough for me.

[thebish]

Handily I included the words "I can't speak for Corbyn himself".

Nevertheless he is an encourager/ supporter of racists. Whatever his reasoning, that's bad enough for me.

I guess we are both coming from a different place then. I can see legitimate reasons for talking to/meeting odious people. It wouldn't make me a supporter of them to do so. meeting people (per se) does not not make you a supporter/cheerleader for their views.

have burnham/kelly/the other one ever met anyone that flashes red lights for you?

[Prufrock]

I can see legitimate reasons for talking to or meeting them. I can't for inviting them for tea at the House of Commons and calling them an "honoured citizen". I'm fine with the idea people like Hamas need to be at the negotiating table, but they should be welcomed with gritted teeth, not as "friends".

[thebish]

I can see legitimate reasons for talking to or meeting them. I can't for inviting them for tea at the House of Commons and calling them an "honoured citizen". I'm fine with the idea people like Hamas need to be at the negotiating table, but they should be welcomed with gritted teeth, not as "friends".

hmmm... the use of "friends" is surely a matter of politeness at the beginning of a meeting rather than a declaration of solidarity and agreement...

what is it about drinking tea that makes a meeting more dangerous? would lager be ok - or should any kind of drink be shunned entirely from such meetings? bottled water?

[Prufrock]

Not a chance he'd have greeted Netenyahu as "friend".

It's the coziness of an unscheduled personal invite for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons, like you'd treat a friend of foreign dignitary. Again, do you think Netenyahu would get the same treatment? Of course not. Why?

[thebish]

Not a chance he'd have greeted Netenyahu as "friend".

It's the coziness of an unscheduled personal invite for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons, like you'd treat a friend of foreign dignitary. Again, do you think Netenyahu would get the same treatment? Of course not. Why?

difficult to say - as there is no reason why an non-cabinet MP would be meeting a head of state in such a fashion - it'd be the PM or secretary of state doing that... were he PM or secretary of state, then I disagree with you - I think he would sit down for tea (or whatever netenyahu drinks). what makes you think he wouldn't?

(maybe you're mixing up Corbyn with the famous ultra-left anti-semitic-sympathiser-activist, President Obama, who declined to meet Netanyahu this year when Netanyahu was at a loose end in Washington...)

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... rship-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This bloke and his supporters are turning into a right bunch of Tossers!
Not like they didn't know the rules when they put his name forward.

[Hoboh]

Not a chance he'd have greeted Netenyahu as "friend".

It's the coziness of an unscheduled personal invite for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons, like you'd treat a friend of foreign dignitary. Again, do you think Netenyahu would get the same treatment? Of course not. Why?

'Kin hell Pru!!!
Churchill had to sup tea with feckin' Stalin at one point.

[Prufrock]

There's no reason (when you're a back-bench MP) to meet ANYONE in that fashion unless you're friends or you want to show you support them. He wasn't meeting him as part of some official negotiating strategy, if he was, why didn't he send out similar invitations to visiting members of the Israeli govt. (though not to Netenyahu of course - he only meets with Prime Ministers or Secretaries of State).

If you aim is to hear all sides, you can meet in a conference centre somewhere, hell there's telephones and e-mail. You don't invite people you're reluctant allies with to tea on the terrace at the House of Commons. You might invite people you sympathise with.

This, by the way, Corbyn on Hamas: "The idea that an organisation that is dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people, and bringing about long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region, should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government, is really a big, big historical mistake."

No, f*ck that.

[Prufrock]

Not a chance he'd have greeted Netenyahu as "friend".

It's the coziness of an unscheduled personal invite for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons, like you'd treat a friend of foreign dignitary. Again, do you think Netenyahu would get the same treatment? Of course not. Why?

'Kin hell Pru!!!
Churchill had to sup tea with feckin' Stalin at one point.

Corbyn isn't Churchill, and he didn't have to sup tea with Salah.

[thebish]

to be fair, it's far cheaper to meet in the office corbyn already has in the commons and make use of the commons tea room than it is to hire a conference centre to meet someone...

[bobo the clown]

Not a chance he'd have greeted Netenyahu as "friend".

It's the coziness of an unscheduled personal invite for tea on the terrace at the House of Commons, like you'd treat a friend of foreign dignitary. Again, do you think Netenyahu would get the same treatment? Of course not. Why?

'Kin hell Pru!!!
Churchill had to sup tea with feckin' Stalin at one point.

Corbyn isn't Churchill, and he didn't have to sup tea with Salah.

This is all typically disingenuous. We all know that Corbyn was seeing to chummy up with people who were seen as outside the norm and he did it to show contempt for the mainstream. He did it when he was, in real terms, insignificant. He virtually sought out people who he knew meeting them would piss people off.

Anyone denying that, or that they realise that, are talking bllx.

Less than a year ago he was "understanding" ISIS. To be fair they've gone further than anyone could imagine and I'm sure he'd genuinely step back from that now, but it just fitted his MO at the time.

... & yes, Corbyn may not be actually anti-Semitic, but he's certainly anti-Israeli. And I tell you what, for all their faults I'd sit in a room with militant Jews before I would with militant Islamists.