The Debt.

[Worthy4England]

We could have sold the training ground months ago...Don't need to go into Administration to do that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Eddie Davies is from Bolton.
Eddie Davies now resides on the Isle of Man.
Eddie Davies has brought in an insolvency specialist called Trevor.
Trevor's last name is Birch.
In the good old days the Isle of Man was famed for having the Birch.
Now Bolton's got the Birch.
On American Dollar banknotes to the right of the Eye of Providence which sits above the Pyramid of Doom is an eagle whose right talon clutches a Birch branch.
It all makes sense, obviously.

[BWFC_Insane]

We could have sold the training ground months ago...Don't need to go into Administration to do that.

Agreed but it depends how desperate Eddie is for money.

[boltonboris]

I never know why Marc Lies gets away with so much...he got beaten to the biggest bolton scoop in the padt 5 years by batman and picks up his stories from message boards.

Who is this 'batman' people have been mentioning recently? Is this the board's nickname for Nixon? Am I missing something?

Worry not, just a former poster: Banned for life. Twice I believe, once as Robin's partner and once as Lofthouse Lower. I believe I was tipped off, when I was persona grata, that he also got binned a third time, but I can't remember his avatar's moniker on that occasion. Mate of Boltonboris I believe, which goes some way to explain his particular sour grapes attitude to posters who treat the site like some kinda soshall meeja fingy.

He's not a mate of mine.. I know him, but that's as far as it goes

[Worthy4England]

We could have sold the training ground months ago...Don't need to go into Administration to do that.

Agreed but it depends how desperate Eddie is for money.

The bit I'm not getting is this. ED probably said some time ago (upwards of two years) that his funding was going to cease. We have reasonable evidence of this from the odd bits and bobs Gartside had said, statements about our funding requirements in the Accounts etc.

So it sort of strikes me that we've had some time to plan and get to a position where the Club can run under its own steam. i.e. without ED.

We clearly haven't done that and are still making a loss - one which ED is covering. I suspect he's run out of patience, with our inability to remove the monthly running cost from his bank account and/or get it to a position where the monthly running cost wasn't hitting his bank account...

[BWFC_Insane]

We could have sold the training ground months ago...Don't need to go into Administration to do that.

Agreed but it depends how desperate Eddie is for money.

The bit I'm not getting is this. ED probably said some time ago (upwards of two years) that his funding was going to cease. We have reasonable evidence of this from the odd bits and bobs Gartside had said, statements about our funding requirements in the Accounts etc.

So it sort of strikes me that we've had some time to plan and get to a position where the Club can run under its own steam. i.e. without ED.

We clearly haven't done that and are still making a loss - one which ED is covering. I suspect he's run out of patience, with our inability to remove the monthly running cost from his bank account and/or get it to a position where the monthly running cost wasn't hitting his bank account...

ED isn't covering the loss though, from what I'm hearing. The loans from Warburtons and sale of land covered losses this year. But that has seemingly ran out now as we can't pay the players.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think this article has come from Nixon. Doesn't make good reading.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... doubt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It doesn't make good reading, no. Strangely uncredited to anyone, it attributes Birch's quote to Eddie, which hardly sings of journalistic rigour.

The Guardian piece is less speculative, although a lot of it isn't news and it quotes (or misquotes) Iles as saying we nearly went bust in the early 70s rather than early 80s. Interestingly doesn't make any claims about Lennon or players leaving, or this excitingly unsubstantiated Friday deadline. As has been noted several times, nobody wins by administration: for a start, the potential buyers would be almost certainly purchasing a third-tier club.

Hmmmm. Maybe I was right? Everyone in the ED PG love in said administration couldn't happen. Well just watch this space. Friday I believe. We are then free to asset strip to pay the main creditor ED. Training ground for sale anyone?

Would you rather be right or happy?

[Prufrock]

We are well and truly goosed.

yes - you have told us this a million times - over several years...

we're still here.

what possible rational reason do you have to mistrust Birch?

[Prufrock]

Administration is bollocks unless he's genuinely and massively strapped for cash outside of football. Like, he's put all his money into Russian holidays to Egypt with free French cartoons. Or oil.

Otherwise he might as well asset-strip himself. If you're going to have a fire-sale you might as well make sure you're the one conducting it.

[Lord Kangana]

That's not entirely true. If he values what he's put into the club massively below the declared paper value, then it may well be a suitable vehicle for him to f*ck off legitimately and most pain free.

Anyway, a little birdy tells me that the process of asset stripping may well have already started. I'll have to wait and see what exactly it is, but the evidence is concrete, the outcome (and the reason behind it) are much less certain.

[BWFC_Insane]

Administration is bollocks unless he's genuinely and massively strapped for cash outside of football. Like, he's put all his money into Russian holidays to Egypt with free French cartoons. Or oil.

Otherwise he might as well asset-strip himself. If you're going to have a fire-sale you might as well make sure you're the one conducting it.

Aye but non payment of players wages makes no sense in any reasonable context either.

[Worthy4England]

Ohhh Asset Stripping - which ones do we think are being stripped with the concrete evidence?

Our tangible assets from the last Accounts are:

1) Stadium £33m
2) Hotel £8.4m
3) Freehold Land £804k
4) Plant equipment and vehicles £4.5m

That's about it...I don't care much about the bottom 3...

[BWFC_Insane]

More from Iles....

Gut feeling is that not much will change between now and weekend - but there isn't much wiggle room before administration becomes a very real possibility.

I'd love to think a takeover will happen that quickly but I'm told that even once an offer has been accepted for a bidder has exclusivity, there is still plenty of work to be done.

Nixon has been saying similar for a few weeks.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ohhh Asset Stripping - which ones do we think are being stripped with the concrete evidence?

Our tangible assets from the last Accounts are:

1) Stadium £33m
2) Hotel £8.4m
3) Freehold Land £804k
4) Plant equipment and vehicles £4.5m

That's about it...I don't care much about the bottom 3...

What about training ground and academy land? They sold a piece of car park off for several million not that long ago.

[Lord Kangana]

We, I use we in the broadest sense, it may well be directly owned by ED, I don't know the detail.

Anyway, there's no need to get all internet warrior about it, if it happens we'll be sure to hear about it in the news.

[BWFC_Insane]

There are two things I don't understand.

One is that we must have known for a long time where this was headed. So why didn't anyone do anything about it? Or did they try and put deals in place and fail?

Secondly a week ago Birch came in and we were told he was here to negotiate a deal to sell the club in Gartside's absence. Then the message was still one of calm, we're negotiating, debt isn't a problem and will be wiped.

A week later and we're in a "perilous position" and can't pay our players. Whether you believe impending administration or not (and a week ago I wouldn't have considered it for a second) it is clear things are desperate. How have things got so badly so quickly? And again if they haven't and have been this way for a long while, what has been happening behind the scenes to prevent this mess from happening?

EDIT: On the blog Iles has just said he understands voluntary administration has been discussed.

[Andy Waller]

Just as an aside, if the players aren't getting paid, don't they have a right to sign for another club?

I would assume we'd be in breach of contract and they could become free agents?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Just as an aside, if the players aren't getting paid, don't they have a right to sign for another club?

I would assume we'd be in breach of contract and they could become free agents?

Not immediately. Haven't got the PFA rules to hand but some sources say two months without pay, some say three months. Either way: not this side of Christmas.

Besides, if they were registered to us, they couldn't play for anyone before January anyway.

A lot will happen before that does.

[Andy Waller]

Just as an aside, if the players aren't getting paid, don't they have a right to sign for another club?

I would assume we'd be in breach of contract and they could become free agents?

Not immediately. Haven't got the PFA rules to hand but some sources say two months without pay, some say three months. Either way: not this side of Christmas.

Besides, if they were registered to us, they couldn't play for anyone before January anyway.

A lot will happen before that does.

That makes sense.

In the event of a mass exodus, I don't mind doing the second half up front, could we get a team together from here?

I'd rather not have Bobo in midfield though, he's a bit of a show pony.

[Worthy4England]

There are two things I don't understand.

One is that we must have known for a long time where this was headed. So why didn't anyone do anything about it? Or did they try and put deals in place and fail?

Secondly a week ago Birch came in and we were told he was here to negotiate a deal to sell the club in Gartside's absence. Then the message was still one of calm, we're negotiating, debt isn't a problem and will be wiped.

A week later and we're in a "perilous position" and can't pay our players. Whether you believe impending administration or not (and a week ago I wouldn't have considered it for a second) it is clear things are desperate. How have things got so badly so quickly? And again if they haven't and have been this way for a long while, what has been happening behind the scenes to prevent this mess from happening?

EDIT: On the blog Iles has just said he understands voluntary administration has been discussed.

Exactly what I don't get, and something I've been saying (as I'm sure others have too) for a good season or two as it's become evident that ED was losing interest/money running out, delete as appropriate, as our budgets have reduced from moderate, to small, to non-existent. To me that blame lies with PG; as much as I wish him well with his recovery this happened on his watch. He's not managed our budget well, known that ED has wanted to sell for quite some time with his debt notice a few years back, yet has seemingly sat by and done nothing. They only went public about wanting to sell a month or two ago when it should have been done well before that in my opinion - clubs are normally up for sale for months before there's any breakthrough.

I really don't get how it's been seemingly bungled over such a long period of time without someone going "hang on, we need to line up further investment to secure our long term future".

That's where I'm at....