The Debt.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Blowing the lead at West Brom in the second to last game of the season is the one that I can't get over. That would have kept us up as I recall.

Genuine question, HP - how has Coyle done, and been received, in MLS?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Well it's all very Not Reet in my opinion.
As nobody else seems willing to nail predictions on the line, here's mine.
I think, and I might be wrong, but out of nearly fifty clubs that have gone into administration only 5 have been dissolved: Last one Diamonds and somedxckers. None of the five were League members. And none were Founder members.
But we've had a global economic downturn, and my prediction is this:
HMRC puts in a winding up petition.
We go into administration.
Some second rate consortium buys us in League One.
They fail to leverage 'snouts in trough' syndrome.
We get dissolved - the first founding club still within the League to do so.

[malcd1]

Blowing the lead at West Brom in the second to last game of the season is the one that I can't get over. That would have kept us up as I recall.

Genuine question, HP - how has Coyle done, and been received, in MLS?

Houston Dynamo finished 8th out of 10 in the MLS Western Conference.

Played - 34
Won - 11
Drew - 9
Lost - 14

Home Record - 9-4-4
Away Record - 2-5-10

These are just statistics. I have no idea if they over-performed or were expected to be challenging for the title. They finished in a very similar position last year.

[Worthy4England]

Reports coming out that staff won't be paid in December...not good...that's all staff, not just the ones with the potential to have a good few bob in the bank.

[BWFC_Insane]

Reports coming out that staff won't be paid in December...not good...that's all staff, not just the ones with the potential to have a good few bob in the bank.

That's what Nixon says. Iles says all staff been told there is no guarantee of wages this month.

Just before Christmas too. And these aren't millionaire footballers. These are folk on 20K a year needing December wages for mortgages let alone Christmas.

Awful.

[Bruce Rioja]

Reports coming out that staff won't be paid in December...not good...that's all staff, not just the ones with the potential to have a good few bob in the bank.

Seriously? I really do hope that that's wide of the mark. That's absolutely unthinkable.

[BWFC_Insane]

Reports coming out that staff won't be paid in December...not good...that's all staff, not just the ones with the potential to have a good few bob in the bank.

Seriously? I really do hope that that's wide of the mark. That's absolutely unthinkable.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... Christmas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope Eddie will pay the non footballing staff. If not for me this is a disgrace. He could probably pay them out of all the tax he saves.

Though perhaps that is the socialist in me talking!

[H. Pedersen]

Blowing the lead at West Brom in the second to last game of the season is the one that I can't get over. That would have kept us up as I recall.

Genuine question, HP - how has Coyle done, and been received, in MLS?

I honestly didn't hear much about him. Houston finished 9 points off the playoffs, which would generally be considered a failure given that 6 of 10 teams qualify in each conference. That said, Houston play in the Western Conference, which is leaps and bounds ahead of the Eastern Conference - consider that the West has MLS Cup champions Portland, Dempsey and Martins here in Seattle, Keane and Gerrard in LA, and Kansas City who are good every year.

From what I can recall he changed the team around a lot and never really settled on a best XI. He brought in Cubo Torres, a young guy who scored an impressive number of goals for Chivas USA (a team so bad it no longer exists) . . . but didn't really play him. They played one of the last games of the Season against Seattle and needed to win to have any hope of making the playoffs, and it seriously looked like they didn't give a damn. Finished 1-1.

Nobody has much in the way of expectations for Houston though. They had a good run a few years ago where you could still win in MLS by bludgeoning your opponents, but at this point they will need more money to really compete. They've already brought in a couple of players that I don't really see improving the team and their core group is getting pretty old.

[Il Pirate]

From what I can recall he changed the team around a lot and never really settled on a best XI



Didn't learn any lessons from his time here then........................

[Bruce Rioja]

Reports coming out that staff won't be paid in December...not good...that's all staff, not just the ones with the potential to have a good few bob in the bank.

Seriously? I really do hope that that's wide of the mark. That's absolutely unthinkable.

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/14 ... Christmas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope Eddie will pay the non footballing staff. If not for me this is a disgrace. He could probably pay them out of all the tax he saves.

Though perhaps that is the socialist in me talking!

feck all to do with the socialist in you - more to do with the decent human being (And no, they're not mutual )

[Bijou Bob]

Interesting to see those who told us administration was an impossibility, foretold by financially clueless Feck wits, have gone very quiet. Bravo.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Interesting to see those who told us administration was an impossibility, foretold by financially clueless Feck wits, have gone very quiet. Bravo.

Interesting indeed. In fact apologies are due, but unforthcoming no doubt.

[Bruce Rioja]

Interesting to see those who told us administration was an impossibility, foretold by financially clueless Feck wits, have gone very quiet. Bravo.

Interesting indeed. In fact apologies are due, but unforthcoming no doubt.

You spoke out against this, no doubt! Care to point out where you did?

[Gary the Enfield]

Interesting to see those who told us administration was an impossibility, foretold by financially clueless Feck wits, have gone very quiet. Bravo.

Interesting indeed. In fact apologies are due, but unforthcoming no doubt.

You spoke out against this, no doubt! Care to point out where you did?

Are we in administration? When was that announced?

[Hoboh]

Deep in debt but Bolton Wanderers have no need to panic, says football finance expert

7:00am Friday 10th January 2014 in Latest By Marc Iles


Wanderers owner Eddie Davies
A LEADING sports finance expert has moved to calm fears Wanderers are heading for some sort of Portsmouth-style meltdown.

After a loss of £50.7million was announced at the end of last month, escalating debts to a whopping £163.8m, concern spread among the club’s supporters that the Whites may be heading for serious financial peril.

The likes of Portsmouth, Leeds United, Leicester City and Coventry City have all slid towards administration after dropping out of the Premier League – and none incurred losses of the size revealed at the Reebok on New Year’s Eve.

But while Robert Wilson, a lecturer on sport finance at Sheffield Hallam University, points out that Wanderers dropped out of the Premier League at the worst possible time, he is confident as an outsider looking in on the club’s accounts they are in no immediate risk, so long as owner Eddie Davies continues to foot the vast majority of the bill through his business interest Moonshift Investments Ltd.

“They are in the eye of a perfect storm at the moment,” he told The Bolton News. “It was absolutely the wrong time to get relegated from the Premier League and for the FFP regulations to hit.


“I would be happy to say that under the current ownership structure, with the owner (Eddie Davies) happy to continue putting money into the club for whatever benefit or reason, the debt does not concern me.

“It appears the club are now financially coming into line with where they need to be and so the next five years are crucial. I’d expect over that period to see them start to break even and begin paying a small amount of that debt off.

“I’d compare their situation more to Southampton when Markus Liebherr took over They have a stable ownership and have not had the upheaval of a Leicester City, Leeds or Portsmouth.


“If Bolton’s owner woke up tomorrow and decided to sell everything the club owned, then I would imagine a large portion of the money he has invested would be recouped – and that is another reason it doesn’t worry me. It is a soft debt.

“If Bolton were in the same situation as Leeds, for example, and did not hold as many assets, it would be a different story.”

The lack of any public communication from Davies or his chairman Phil Gartside in the light of the accounts has not helped to quell the feeling of unease among supporters.

The club have outlined plans to pursue “alternative revenue streams” key to which seems to be their £100m office and school development alongside the Reebok, which they hope will get the go-ahead from planners early this year.

Wilson reckons only promotion to the Premier League – and a share of broadcasting revenue which is now nearly three times the size of the one they previously enjoyed – will start to see the debts reduced.

“In terms of a business objective then getting back to the Premier League is absolutely vital but the worrying thing for Bolton is that it is becoming increasingly harder,” he said.

“Three teams who come down every year do so with a parachute payment that enables them to keep hold of better players, given the right relegation clauses, and retain stronger squads. This is one of the main problems of FFP and it creates an environment where other clubs could be frozen out.”

Reading back through the thread, some 'expert' this bloke turned out to be!

[H. Pedersen]

Reading back through the thread, some 'expert' this bloke turned out to be!

Well his prediction was contingent on this:

"But while Robert Wilson, a lecturer on sport finance at Sheffield Hallam University, points out that Wanderers dropped out of the Premier League at the worst possible time, he is confident as an outsider looking in on the club’s accounts they are in no immediate risk, so long as owner Eddie Davies continues to foot the vast majority of the bill through his business interest Moonshift Investments Ltd."

[BWFC_Insane]

Deep in debt but Bolton Wanderers have no need to panic, says football finance expert

7:00am Friday 10th January 2014 in Latest By Marc Iles


Wanderers owner Eddie Davies
A LEADING sports finance expert has moved to calm fears Wanderers are heading for some sort of Portsmouth-style meltdown.

After a loss of £50.7million was announced at the end of last month, escalating debts to a whopping £163.8m, concern spread among the club’s supporters that the Whites may be heading for serious financial peril.

The likes of Portsmouth, Leeds United, Leicester City and Coventry City have all slid towards administration after dropping out of the Premier League – and none incurred losses of the size revealed at the Reebok on New Year’s Eve.

But while Robert Wilson, a lecturer on sport finance at Sheffield Hallam University, points out that Wanderers dropped out of the Premier League at the worst possible time, he is confident as an outsider looking in on the club’s accounts they are in no immediate risk, so long as owner Eddie Davies continues to foot the vast majority of the bill through his business interest Moonshift Investments Ltd.

“They are in the eye of a perfect storm at the moment,” he told The Bolton News. “It was absolutely the wrong time to get relegated from the Premier League and for the FFP regulations to hit.


“I would be happy to say that under the current ownership structure, with the owner (Eddie Davies) happy to continue putting money into the club for whatever benefit or reason, the debt does not concern me.

“It appears the club are now financially coming into line with where they need to be and so the next five years are crucial. I’d expect over that period to see them start to break even and begin paying a small amount of that debt off.

“I’d compare their situation more to Southampton when Markus Liebherr took over They have a stable ownership and have not had the upheaval of a Leicester City, Leeds or Portsmouth.


“If Bolton’s owner woke up tomorrow and decided to sell everything the club owned, then I would imagine a large portion of the money he has invested would be recouped – and that is another reason it doesn’t worry me. It is a soft debt.

“If Bolton were in the same situation as Leeds, for example, and did not hold as many assets, it would be a different story.”

The lack of any public communication from Davies or his chairman Phil Gartside in the light of the accounts has not helped to quell the feeling of unease among supporters.

The club have outlined plans to pursue “alternative revenue streams” key to which seems to be their £100m office and school development alongside the Reebok, which they hope will get the go-ahead from planners early this year.

Wilson reckons only promotion to the Premier League – and a share of broadcasting revenue which is now nearly three times the size of the one they previously enjoyed – will start to see the debts reduced.

“In terms of a business objective then getting back to the Premier League is absolutely vital but the worrying thing for Bolton is that it is becoming increasingly harder,” he said.

“Three teams who come down every year do so with a parachute payment that enables them to keep hold of better players, given the right relegation clauses, and retain stronger squads. This is one of the main problems of FFP and it creates an environment where other clubs could be frozen out.”

Reading back through the thread, some 'expert' this bloke turned out to be!

Read that. The expert wasn't wrong.

The debt to Eddie is irrelevant. The problem is the club were still running at a loss when ED decided to stop putting any cash in at all.

I think the severity of this situation has caught everyone by surprise. I think most thought either Eddie was covering essential operating costs or that costs were reduced sufficiently to continue trading with modest additional loans.

I don't think anyone knew things were this bad. But then again this situation only arose because our owner and principal funder turned the tap off.

The debt to Eddie is irrelevant.

[jonnycooper]

Well it's all very Not Reet in my opinion.
As nobody else seems willing to nail predictions on the line, here's mine.
I think, and I might be wrong, but out of nearly fifty clubs that have gone into administration only 5 have been dissolved: Last one Diamonds and somedxckers. None of the five were League members. And none were Founder members.
But we've had a global economic downturn, and my prediction is this:
HMRC puts in a winding up petition.
We go into administration.
Some second rate consortium buys us in League One.
They fail to leverage 'snouts in trough' syndrome.
We get dissolved - the first founding club still within the League to do so.

Stop that now!! The very thought is heartbreaking..

[Martin_Cruise]

Davies is a nasty piece of work letting it be known he might not pay the wages of his admin staff.His true colours are being shown now.
If he acts likes royalty next time he comes over from his tax haven in his private jet and moans about his pasty i hope someone tells him to stick it up his arse.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well I do think we are heading for administration now. And I whole heartedly apologise for poo-pooing the administration possibility until recently. It made no sense then but I along with many others didn't realise quite how appalling the situation was.

So sorry to anyone I argued with saying this wasn't going to happen.