Rose tinted spectacles..

[twilight]

Tango, I remember that team!! My Dad used to take me to games when I was little and we used to stand on the Embankment, although I couldn't really see much I was so small, but I do remember that team, and also Tony Dunne, Tommo and Worthington I loved those players, absolutely loved them, as much as I hate these players in our team now.

[Andy Waller]

What I'm trying to get at I suppose is, taking whether players were better or not out of the equation, was the "matchday experience" better?

[Bruce Rioja]

It doesn't really matter whether a player from a different era would survive today's or not for the purpose of this discussion.

He says, missing the entire point of "this discussion" like Madine from three feet out!

[BWFC_Insane]

It doesn't really matter whether a player from a different era would survive today's or not for the purpose of this discussion.

He says, missing the entire point of "this discussion" like Madine from three feet out!

The question posed was 'has it ever been this bad'?

That means you are comparing the team, atomsphere etc to the other similarly poor time periods. Whether player x is better than player y if x played now is largely irrelevant. The relevant question is in the respective time periods how good were we and what entertainment was on offer against the opponents of the time.

The question also concerns more than just the relative quality of the playing squad.

[LeverEnd]

What I'm trying to get at I suppose is, taking whether players were better or not out of the equation, was the "matchday experience" better?

Massively in my opinion. Even in a crumbling ground with a supermarket on it. The main factor being standing up on terraces for me. Even sitting down, you enjoyed the atmosphere generated on the terraces.
Also price of pies pints etc do play a part, not because I'd miss the money spent on them, but because I object generally to being treated like a mug.

[LeverEnd]

I also think that being part of a crowd of 8k in the largely empty Macron in League 1 next season will be worse than being in 3k crowds at Burnden.

[Bruce Rioja]

It doesn't really matter whether a player from a different era would survive today's or not for the purpose of this discussion.

He says, missing the entire point of "this discussion" like Madine from three feet out!

The question posed was 'has it ever been this bad'?

That means you are comparing the team, atomsphere etc to the other similarly poor time periods. Whether player x is better than player y if x played now is largely irrelevant. The relevant question is in the respective time periods how good were we and what entertainment was on offer against the opponents of the time.

The question also concerns more than just the relative quality of the playing squad.

It does. The price of pies comes into it also. I'm amazed that you read all of it as you only appear to be responding to the part of it that you feel like getting all uppity about. Quelle surprise. The rest of us are having a general conversation.

[Peter Thompson]

I would say that the match day experience was better in the 80's, but that was probably because we were all a lot younger - we used to go to games home & away in large groups (the days of 15/20 lads in the back of transit van etc) - most would stay out in town afterwards or whichever town we were in so it was more of a social day out with the lads, there was always a bit of trouble with the opposition fans....but the football was as bad as it is now, but at least the players back then looked & played like they gave a shit, unlike this pathetic bunch.

Saying that our prem days at the Reebok were also excellent socially and the overall match day experience in the prem with big crowds and decent football was good - although we were all a lot older, but no one can compare the match day facilities of the Reebok / Macron, IMO Burnden was a dive, our dive but still a dive.

Burnden itself inside the ground wasn't great, unless you liked standing in a pool of piss every week - IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Reebok / Macron that a bunch of players playing for the shirt / fans every week, playing half decent football wouldn't solve.

[Harry Genshaw]

What I'm trying to get at I suppose is, taking whether players were better or not out of the equation, was the "matchday experience" better?

I think it was way better back then. Certainly more value for money and it was surprising what a decent atmosphere could be created from just a few thousand. That said anyone under the age of 25 wouldn't really know any different from what we have now, so perhaps its just us old farts whinging on

[Bruce Rioja]

I would say that the match day experience was better in the 80's, but that was probably because we were all a lot younger - we used to go to games home & away in large groups (the days of 15/20 lads in the back of transit van etc)

For our age group I think that that's an absolutely massive consideration, PT. Hiring a Transit van from that place down in Darcy Lever (Jackson's?) turning up at Sincil Bank with only 30 minutes left because we'd no idea how long it was going to take us. The Neal era going into the Rioch era and the emergence of hope. I do often think that we were at the right age at the right time.

[thebish]

I suspect that MOST of this past-football vs modern-football is actually quite closely tied up with past-us and modern-us... we felt differently back then cos, for one thing, WE were different - we were not middle-aged/old-aged blokes with other competing responsibilities and life-experiences...

no longer would you find any of us proclaiming (all Dan-like) - "The Wanderers are my entire life, without them I have nothing"... - or even anything remotely close to that! and I don't think that is simply down to the vagaries of success/failure on the pitch...

[jonnycooper]

I also think that being part of a crowd of 8k in the largely empty Macron in League 1 next season will be worse than being in 3k crowds at Burnden.

So! You reckon there,ll be 8k on in League1 then? I,ll be very surprised!

[LeverEnd]

Tony Kelly was an outlier. The more typical player of the time - for our team and others - was Nicky Brookman. Sammy Lee won a European Cup. The England team featured Carlton Palmer.

Such examples could go on, from either side of the argument, but I insist that the typical/average player now is technically far superior to 20/30 years ago. The bar has definitely risen. If you watch (as live) a game from then - backpasses, bad fouls and all - compared to now it would be genuinely surprising how much so.

Here's your chance, posted by Iles as part of the buildup to Saturday's tie.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

What I'm trying to get at I suppose is, taking whether players were better or not out of the equation, was the "matchday experience" better?

Yes. I was younger, the future was rosier. A new century was approaching. Man had landed on the moon and anything was possible. Romanians hadn't been invented. Etc.
[EDIT just noticed I've paraphrased what Bish said but in a more dogmatic, fundamentalist and grumpier manner. But then I'm older than him and entitled.]

[thebish]

What I'm trying to get at I suppose is, taking whether players were better or not out of the equation, was the "matchday experience" better?

Yes. I was younger, the future was rosier. A new century was approaching. Man had landed on the moon and anything was possible. Romanians hadn't been invented. Etc.
[EDIT just noticed I've paraphrased what Bish said but in a more dogmatic, fundamentalist and grumpier manner. But then I'm older than him and entitled.]

...they do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.