The Debt.

[Prufrock]

I think the analogy reasonable if a bit clunky.

The point remains - we know ED backed us (although I'm unsure as to how much of his actual own hard cash he put in - we owe him shitloads more than he ever put in), but to end it like this when you've known what's been going on for years is, to my mind, a sign of not really giving a shiny one who you screw over. We could easily have had a softer landing than this.

My own sneaky suspicion, and I have no real hard evidence for this so take it how you will, is that Gartside has hidden from ED (perhaps a strong word, maybe "misled"?) certain aspects of the day-to-day operation of the club. And that only recently, given Gartside's illness, have some of the truly awful aspects of the club really become apparent.

I did wonder about that last part meself...Surely ED is likely to have looked at (or been presented to) a summary of the top level accounts and forward projections etc. but I'd be surprised if he did anything at a lower level than set a budget (if at all this last year as we know he'd given notice he wanted to sell up). He had someone operating the Club - as far as we know within the boundaries he'd set previously, given that Gartside has remained in post so long. So it's more than possible he wasn't close to the detail.

This being a man who's made his millions out of kettle elements and a network of intertwined overseas companies. And he took his eye off the ball? So much so that it transpires there is more debt than the wiped out debt and some of that debt is owed to him specifically! Hmmmm.

Yup. Why not? Plenty of Banks done write-downs in the last few years. My Company wrote down shitloads - happens plenty often by some "clever people"...

He's been fairly involved in a lot of transfers hasn't he? And wanted final say on various managers? I'm sure he doesn't keep the books by his bedside, but I also find it difficult to believe we took out wonga loans against assets, or were still chucking mega contracts at people for the last three years without him knowing.

It's a either he knew, our he should have known, for me.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't offer my scenario as a fait accompli - I'm sure there a dozen angles you could come at it. But I find it difficult to think theres no reason why this is happening beyond ED saying "yeah, Bolton Wanderers? F8ck em couldn't care less about them".

It is far more likely to be a reason entirely external to Bolton Wanderers.

I suspect, given his wealth and age his family may have asked him to stop pissing money down the Bolton Wanderers drain.

[Peter Thompson]

I suspect, given his wealth and age his family may have asked him to stop pissing money down the Bolton Wanderers drain.

This is what I was told 4 years ago - I was told that it was indeed his family that didn't want him to put any more money in as the rest of his family didn't give a fcuk about BWFC, I was told at the time that it was his son or sons behind it but TBH I don't know if he even has any sons.

[Worthy4England]

I think the analogy reasonable if a bit clunky.

The point remains - we know ED backed us (although I'm unsure as to how much of his actual own hard cash he put in - we owe him shitloads more than he ever put in), but to end it like this when you've known what's been going on for years is, to my mind, a sign of not really giving a shiny one who you screw over. We could easily have had a softer landing than this.

My own sneaky suspicion, and I have no real hard evidence for this so take it how you will, is that Gartside has hidden from ED (perhaps a strong word, maybe "misled"?) certain aspects of the day-to-day operation of the club. And that only recently, given Gartside's illness, have some of the truly awful aspects of the club really become apparent.

I did wonder about that last part meself...Surely ED is likely to have looked at (or been presented to) a summary of the top level accounts and forward projections etc. but I'd be surprised if he did anything at a lower level than set a budget (if at all this last year as we know he'd given notice he wanted to sell up). He had someone operating the Club - as far as we know within the boundaries he'd set previously, given that Gartside has remained in post so long. So it's more than possible he wasn't close to the detail.

This being a man who's made his millions out of kettle elements and a network of intertwined overseas companies. And he took his eye off the ball? So much so that it transpires there is more debt than the wiped out debt and some of that debt is owed to him specifically! Hmmmm.

Yup. Why not? Plenty of Banks done write-downs in the last few years. My Company wrote down shitloads - happens plenty often by some "clever people"...

He's been fairly involved in a lot of transfers hasn't he? And wanted final say on various managers? I'm sure he doesn't keep the books by his bedside, but I also find it difficult to believe we took out wonga loans against assets, or were still chucking mega contracts at people for the last three years without him knowing.

It's a either he knew, our he should have known, for me.

I'm fairly sure he'd have been involved in significant transfers he bankrolled. I doubt he'd have done the negotiations (but he might) - more likely to set the high level parameters. If he trusted Gartside (and PG's continuing involvement suggest that was the case) then how closely would he look? Loan against assets, short term, we don't know what they story was there - he might have been told "I'm doing this loan, but it's not a problem because X is going to happen. Contracts, he might have set some sort of salary bill cap - then again he might have left it as "as long as it's covered by Revenue then it's good.

PG was the CEO not Davies. Why have a dog and bark yourself? There has to be trust in the CEO otherwise it's not going to work very well. So probably not very close to the day to day stuff. I'd be very surprised if your CEO knew what you earned.

[H. Pedersen]

Or given the half-truths and outright lies we've been fed over the past few years, I don't think it's totally unreasonable that some may question whether PG is actually as seriously ill as we have been told, and whether it is a convenient way of him getting out of the line of fire with no questions asked. I know, I know, some may regard that as out of bounds and distasteful, but would any Bolton fan still blindly trust a single word from any of our board of directors?

Either way, the timing of PG's reported illness and ED pulling out of the club so swiftly and savagely must surely be more than just a coincidence.

I'd be lying if I said the thought hadn't crossed my mind.

[Harry Genshaw]

I suspect, given his wealth and age his family may have asked him to stop pissing money down the Bolton Wanderers drain.

This is what I was told 4 years ago - I was told that it was indeed his family that didn't want him to put any more money in as the rest of his family didn't give a fcuk about BWFC, I was told at the time that it was his son or sons behind it but TBH I don't know if he even has any sons.

I remember that rumour doing the rounds at the time. Wasn't there also talk that ED was very ill with dementia at the time (mentioned on here I thought) or have I made that up?

As for trusting his chairman. Alarm bells surely should have been ringing when he recommended Megson as manager - easy to forget how truly shocking that decision was at the time - or perhaps that's where the dementia story came from.

[thebish]

well - whatever happens I still think Eddie should have a Bolton statue one day - and then - if you like - some of you can sneak up overnight and pi$$ on it, just to make you happy.

What for?

for enriching my life with Okocha and Djorkaeff, Hierro and Campo... s'enuff for me!

[Jugs]

well - whatever happens I still think Eddie should have a Bolton statue one day - and then - if you like - some of you can sneak up overnight and pi$$ on it, just to make you happy.

What for?

for enriching my life with Okocha and Djorkaeff, Hierro and Campo... s'enuff for me!

I'd sooner have a statue of Okocha, Djorkaeff, Hierro or Campo

[jetsetwilly]

Regardless of this so called illness, questions just be asked. Too much of a coincidence. Either he is ill and ED needed to cover up the mess by closing things down. Our ED found out causing PG to get ill with stress. Our maybe the two of them are currently in the Bahamas laughing as they sip Champagne. We know that ED is there. My money is on the pair of them doing just that.

[Jugs]

I don't know what's happened but they've completely fecked it up and left us in a right mess. No statue for me.

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't know what's happened but they've completely fecked it up and left us in a right mess. No statue for me.

Aye I think credit for what he did is fair. But anyone suggesting a statue at this stage has to be having a laugh.

He gave us great times but his decisions and actions are now damaging the club, possibly beyond repair. It is hard to be balanced about it, but best I can do is say he's not evil or the enemy but he certainly has a lot to answer for.

[Bruce Rioja]

We could probably buy this one for cheap. Looks more like Eddie Davies than it does the bloke it's meant to look like anyway!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We could probably buy this one for cheap. Looks more like Eddie Davies than it does the bloke it's meant to look like anyway!

'kin'ell - did the Wadjawamee tribe in Borneo get hold of the bloke after he died but could only manage to shrink his lower half?

[LeverEnd]

Is that the Southampton one there was all that fuss about?

[Bruce Rioja]

Is that the Southampton one there was all that fuss about?

It is indeed. It's a shocker!

[Hoboh]

I don't know what's happened but they've completely fecked it up and left us in a right mess. No statue for me.

Aye I think credit for what he did is fair. But anyone suggesting a statue at this stage has to be having a laugh.

He gave us great times but his decisions and actions are now damaging the club, possibly beyond repair. It is hard to be balanced about it, but best I can do is say he's not evil or the enemy but he certainly has a lot to answer for.

Everyone is assuming it is Eddie calling the shots here, maybe others who maybe involved in his affairs don't share his view of the club?
We only have Gartside's word it was all down to Eddie and frankly I would take anything he said with a couple of acres of Cheshire salt mines now!

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't know what's happened but they've completely fecked it up and left us in a right mess. No statue for me.

Aye I think credit for what he did is fair. But anyone suggesting a statue at this stage has to be having a laugh.

He gave us great times but his decisions and actions are now damaging the club, possibly beyond repair. It is hard to be balanced about it, but best I can do is say he's not evil or the enemy but he certainly has a lot to answer for.

Everyone is assuming it is Eddie calling the shots here, maybe others who maybe involved in his affairs don't share his view of the club?
We only have Gartside's word it was all down to Eddie and frankly I would take anything he said with a couple of acres of Cheshire salt mines now!

Eddie owns the business. And therefore ultimately is responsible.

[Enoch]

Bit disingenuous to c*nt off a bloke folk know, pretty much, nothing about.

I think we all know BWFC had a party on the back of his investment. I doubt anyone posting on here has a clue why it all went wrong.

I'd give him a statue, maybe the attached plaque could mention there are some misgivings about the way it all went tits up.

[Hoboh]

Bit disingenuous to c*nt off a bloke folk know, pretty much, nothing about.

I think we all know BWFC had a party on the back of his investment. I doubt anyone posting on here has a clue why it all went wrong.

I'd give him a statue, maybe the attached plaque could mention there are some misgivings about the way it all went tits up.

Fcuk me Enoch, your so nice you'd give Tony Blair a knighthood and statue for his contribution to middle east peace!

[Worthy4England]

I don't know what's happened but they've completely fecked it up and left us in a right mess. No statue for me.

Aye I think credit for what he did is fair. But anyone suggesting a statue at this stage has to be having a laugh.

He gave us great times but his decisions and actions are now damaging the club, possibly beyond repair. It is hard to be balanced about it, but best I can do is say he's not evil or the enemy but he certainly has a lot to answer for.

Everyone is assuming it is Eddie calling the shots here, maybe others who maybe involved in his affairs don't share his view of the club?
We only have Gartside's word it was all down to Eddie and frankly I would take anything he said with a couple of acres of Cheshire salt mines now!

Eddie owns the business. And therefore ultimately is responsible.

That's bollocks. Our Shareholders own the own I work for, they aren't ultimately responsible. That's what the CEO is for.