The Debt.

[Worthy4England]

That's the point I'm making he might not have "authorised" Keith Andrews getting anything. I'd have expected Gartside to authorise what Keith Andrews was getting and Amos this summer, within whatever budget he knew he had to get to. Certainly in the case of Amos (which is a good one to consider) we're fairly sure by that point ED had said he was stopping putting £1m per month in - so either ED said go out and do it (doubtful in my mind), or PG figured the deal he was going to put in place with Nucleus would cover any shortfall from ED stopping putting money in. It clearly hasn't.

Is Nucleus the Wonga lot we put up the family silver for? I'm not having that PG was given that kind of control without ED's sign-off. Either ED was signing off on a wage budget that could bear Amos (whether he knew specifically what Amos was getting or not) or PG has had to bump that budget somehow. Given ED's position was clearly, protect my wealth, lose no more, I'm not having it that PG started taking out Wonga loans we could never pay back (because he weren't cutting costs to levels we could afford, we were signing bloody Amos) against assets. Not a chance that went through without ED knowing.

I don't think I said it went through without ED knowing. That's different than him being a party to its detail. I'm glad I'm not your CEO - there wouldn't be enough hours in the day to go to the level of detail you're expecting. The ones I work with don't go into all the detail you're suggesting - that's what they employ other people to do. They ask does it cover this, what are the terms on that maybe - and take it at face value they're being told the truth if it's coming from someone they know and trust. That aside the alternative you're suggesting implies a number of things.

That we signed Amos, Madine, Lussey and Derik (all before the Nucleus loan was in place) knowing full well we didn't have line of sight to pay them at all - if we couldn't pay the squad for more than 3 months with the loan then there was no chance we could've afforded it without. We then put the Nucleus loan in place end of July.
Knowing how much that was for we then signed Dobbie, Wilson, Campbell-Young, Prince, Pisano, Casado, Rabchubka and Ameobi, with the understanding that as far as our budget stretched we could only pay them until October. The money ran out in October (as we didn't manage to pay folks in November)

So either we were hoping the sale would have gone through and someone would have picked up the slack (big gamble in the time available (Ameobi signed 12th October - but the rest were done by 5 September))

We were thinking someone else would stump up the dosh.

We just thought fck it, we don't care anymore. Let's sign 'em anyhow and go out in a blaze of glory.

Why would a bloke wanting to protect his losses sanction all that, unless he was being told it would all be covered/sorted?

[Enoch]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

[Bruce Rioja]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

Well, a quickie as to the value of Moxey's house should at least give you a representative figure, if you can be arsed looking for it.

[Prufrock]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Yeah, but you can work stuff out. Some of us just have an overwhelming desire to be correct.

[Harry Genshaw]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

Aye but tbf to DSB he said Moxey is held to be one of the bigger earners. That assertion was from recent articles in the BN. It's possible that being nearer to the club and info than most of us, they might have more of an idea who earns what. I dunno. I think they all earn way too much.

[Enoch]

Well, a quickie as to the value of Moxey's house should at least give you a representative figure, if you can be arsed looking for it.

I can't.

I defy anyone to come up with a formula that correlates the value of my home to my income. And I understand some scary abstract mathematics.

Though I can't make head nor tail of BWFC's finances.

[Mar]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Yeah, but you can work stuff out. Some of us just have an overwhelming desire to be correct.

Would be nice if someone had an idea what was going on. It's been years since we've been clued in as to whats actually going on.

[Enoch]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

Aye but tbf to DSB he said Moxey is held to be one of the bigger earners. That assertion was from recent articles in the BN. It's possible that being nearer to the club and info than most of us, they might have more of an idea who earns what. I dunno. I think they all earn way too much.

DSb is one of the good guys for me, his bollocks is generally well researched and nicely presented.

In response to his post I only asked for the source, which you very kindly supplied. That's where it all fell apart.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Yeah, but you can work stuff out. Some of us just have an overwhelming desire to be correct.

Would be nice if someone had an idea what was going on. It's been years since we've been clued in as to whats actually going on.

Fxcking hell, you're alive! I once posted a question, but you never answered...

[Worthy4England]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt for a moment that the ones before this season ED sanctioned in some way either by overall budget approval or some other mechanism. Then we get to this season, we sign Amos on £16k per week allegedly, without the finance in place along with the other 10 players or so I mentioned and you reckon that ED said ok to that? Clearly the signings we made this summer didn't have enough funding, so you're suggesting that they both colluded that this was the right thing to do?

Doesn't fit for me at the moment...by a bloke expecting not to hold more debt?

[CrazyHorse]

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry

Try a little bit harder then. It's not fecking rocket science.

[Prufrock]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt for a moment that the ones before this season ED sanctioned in some way either by overall budget approval or some other mechanism. Then we get to this season, we sign Amos on £16k per week allegedly, without the finance in place along with the other 10 players or so I mentioned and you reckon that ED said ok to that? Clearly the signings we made this summer didn't have enough funding, so you're suggesting that they both colluded that this was the right thing to do?

Doesn't fit for me at the moment...by a bloke expecting not to hold more debt?

We haven't had the finance in place for ten years and he's been signing off on it. I'm saying I think he knew and was still ok with it in summer (yes we heard he said there was no more money, but we've also been hearing that for two years). Then, much more recently, something changed.

The alternative, that you seem to be suggesting, is that his instructions to PG were to cut his losses and despite this PG signed Amos on a £2m contract and wonga loaned major assets. That's not just sack PG, that's suing PG personally for the money back bad. That doesn't fit for me.

My own hunch it's the oil crash has mega f*cked ED and he now wants out at any price asap. But yeah, that's blind!

[Mar]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Yeah, but you can work stuff out. Some of us just have an overwhelming desire to be correct.

Would be nice if someone had an idea what was going on. It's been years since we've been clued in as to whats actually going on.

Fxcking hell, you're alive! I once posted a question, but you never answered...

Ha!

Aye. I'm alive. Having kids, work, etc. has pretty much left me with sod all time so postings been down quite a bit. Still keeping an eye on Bolton though for some crazed reason.

You ask and it shall be answered! (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1875&p=996936#p996936, albeit 4 years later...)

[Enoch]

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry

Try a little bit harder then. It's not fecking rocket science.

I'll book some therapy sessions, see if I can't get the hang of it.

[Worthy4England]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt for a moment that the ones before this season ED sanctioned in some way either by overall budget approval or some other mechanism. Then we get to this season, we sign Amos on £16k per week allegedly, without the finance in place along with the other 10 players or so I mentioned and you reckon that ED said ok to that? Clearly the signings we made this summer didn't have enough funding, so you're suggesting that they both colluded that this was the right thing to do?

Doesn't fit for me at the moment...by a bloke expecting not to hold more debt?

We haven't had the finance in place for ten years and he's been signing off on it. I'm saying I think he knew and was still ok with it in summer (yes we heard he said there was no more money, but we've also been hearing that for two years). Then, much more recently, something changed.

The alternative, that you seem to be suggesting, is that his instructions to PG were to cut his losses and despite this PG signed Amos on a £2m contract and wonga loaned major assets. That's not just sack PG, that's suing PG personally for the money back bad. That doesn't fit for me.

My own hunch it's the oil crash has mega f*cked ED and he now wants out at any price asap. But yeah, that's blind!

PG may well have had notions as to how much lenders would lend to us, which never materialized. The main oil price crash started last year so would have been known about this summer...

[jonnycooper]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

http://www.celebritiesmoney.com/wp-cont ... -table.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fill yer boots! Probly utter bollocks!

[Worthy4England]

I've no idea how well Iles knows the players earnings but I suspect most took it at face value. I get the impression (& sorry if I've got this wrong) that you see it as some veiled criticism of Freedmans time here.

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry, he's gone.

What troubles me is when folk state things they probably have no way of knowing, or substantiating, with an air of certainty. Those statements then get quoted and repeated as if they are fact. I don't know what Moxey earns, but if Iles knows I'd doubt he heard it from Moxey and some f*cker wants sacking.

I appreciate folk won't stop posting unfounded bollocks, but I doubt I'll tire of occasionally digging it out.

I'll go out on a bit of a limb here and say if Moxey earned a grand a week less than me, I'd be on more than I am now.

[Prufrock]

The level of detail I'm expecting?! The first-team wage-bill(I don't think individually is a stretch, but to make it easy, as a whole); who owns all the shit; how much we're losing. I reckon *I* could have a go at keeping all that information. We haven't only just started losing shit-loads. As I say if I was personally on the hook for £1m a month (something most CEO's are not) I'd be making damn sure I got to the bottom of it.

If from that point my club was still dishing out £16kpw contracts I'd understand it if people thought I was happy to keep sticking money in. If I wasn't happy to sign off on £1m per month I'd be making sure any new big contracts came before me before they happened. That's hardly micro-managing, that's I'm already losing £1m per month I don't want to be committed to a £2m contract without knowing. If they *were* happening and I didn't want them to, I'd be sacking the guy who was handing them out pretty damn quickly.

Let's give the benefit of the doubt for a moment that the ones before this season ED sanctioned in some way either by overall budget approval or some other mechanism. Then we get to this season, we sign Amos on £16k per week allegedly, without the finance in place along with the other 10 players or so I mentioned and you reckon that ED said ok to that? Clearly the signings we made this summer didn't have enough funding, so you're suggesting that they both colluded that this was the right thing to do?

Doesn't fit for me at the moment...by a bloke expecting not to hold more debt?

We haven't had the finance in place for ten years and he's been signing off on it. I'm saying I think he knew and was still ok with it in summer (yes we heard he said there was no more money, but we've also been hearing that for two years). Then, much more recently, something changed.

The alternative, that you seem to be suggesting, is that his instructions to PG were to cut his losses and despite this PG signed Amos on a £2m contract and wonga loaned major assets. That's not just sack PG, that's suing PG personally for the money back bad. That doesn't fit for me.

My own hunch it's the oil crash has mega f*cked ED and he now wants out at any price asap. But yeah, that's blind!

PG may well have had notions as to how much lenders would lend to us, which never materialized. The main oil price crash started last year so would have been known about this summer...

That's George Osbourne economics. If we're minimising our losses, loans are not the way to do it!

[Bijou Bob]

Though I don't understand why folk vilify Freedman as some do, Harry

Try a little bit harder then. It's not fecking rocket science.

I'll book some therapy sessions, see if I can't get the hang of it.

I'm listening.........