Today I'm angry about.....

[Dujon]

*Groans*

[Montreal Wanderer]

*Groans*

Welcome back, Dujon, and a happy new year.

[thebish]

I am actually a little bit cross about the government's decision to retrospectively change the terms of the Student Finance contracts that students signed in 2012 and beyond..

no private company would get away with changing a contract retrospectively without the agreement of the other party - it seems fundamentally unjust - and basic bad behaviour - to do this... my son signed a legally binding contract with the Student Loans Company - the terms of that contract have now been changed...

I'm sure he'll survive - but surely this is bad governance in principle - if the idea becomes accepted that the govt can simply change contracts it is a part of in a one-sided and retrospective fashion... won't that simply stop people wanting to do business with the UK govt?

[jimbo]

I am actually a little bit cross about the government's decision to retrospectively change the terms of the Student Finance contracts that students signed in 2012 and beyond..

no private company would get away with changing a contract retrospectively without the agreement of the other party - it seems fundamentally unjust - and basic bad behaviour - to do this... my son signed a legally binding contract with the Student Loans Company - the terms of that contract have now been changed...

I'm sure he'll survive - but surely this is bad governance in principle - if the idea becomes accepted that the govt can simply change contracts it is a part of in a one-sided and retrospective fashion... won't that simply stop people wanting to do business with the UK govt?

Seems as though they're not keen on honouring existing contracts all round! Didn't know about the student finance details, but sounds similar to our situation.
We signed contracts at the start of our training which are now being ripped up with a new one enforced against our will.

[Worthy4England]

I am actually a little bit cross about the government's decision to retrospectively change the terms of the Student Finance contracts that students signed in 2012 and beyond..

no private company would get away with changing a contract retrospectively without the agreement of the other party - it seems fundamentally unjust - and basic bad behaviour - to do this... my son signed a legally binding contract with the Student Loans Company - the terms of that contract have now been changed...

I'm sure he'll survive - but surely this is bad governance in principle - if the idea becomes accepted that the govt can simply change contracts it is a part of in a one-sided and retrospective fashion... won't that simply stop people wanting to do business with the UK govt?

Seems as though they're not keen on honouring existing contracts all round! Didn't know about the student finance details, but sounds similar to our situation.
We signed contracts at the start of our training which are now being ripped up with a new one enforced against our will.

Not unknown in the Commercial sector, happens fairly often. You are of course well within your rights to not sign it. Not sure if you could then claim constructive...What they do now more often is sign you up to a load of policies you've never seen in your Contract - so your Contract says it's bound by Policy X and Policy Y - all they do then is change the underlying Policy...Contract remains pretty much the same.

[thebish]

I am actually a little bit cross about the government's decision to retrospectively change the terms of the Student Finance contracts that students signed in 2012 and beyond..

no private company would get away with changing a contract retrospectively without the agreement of the other party - it seems fundamentally unjust - and basic bad behaviour - to do this... my son signed a legally binding contract with the Student Loans Company - the terms of that contract have now been changed...

I'm sure he'll survive - but surely this is bad governance in principle - if the idea becomes accepted that the govt can simply change contracts it is a part of in a one-sided and retrospective fashion... won't that simply stop people wanting to do business with the UK govt?

Seems as though they're not keen on honouring existing contracts all round! Didn't know about the student finance details, but sounds similar to our situation.
We signed contracts at the start of our training which are now being ripped up with a new one enforced against our will.

Not unknown in the Commercial sector, happens fairly often. You are of course well within your rights to not sign it. Not sure if you could then claim constructive...What they do now more often is sign you up to a load of policies you've never seen in your Contract - so your Contract says it's bound by Policy X and Policy Y - all they do then is change the underlying Policy...Contract remains pretty much the same.

hmmm.. but this is a fundamental change to the rate of pay-back - it's not a small-print add-on that was referenced but not readily shown!

[Worthy4England]

Not arguing it's in any way right.

[thebish]

the govt have also quietly scrapped maintenance grants... (they were given to poorer students - nothing like when us older folk got them - but handy for families without extra means nonetheless...)

[Worthy4England]

the govt have also quietly scrapped maintenance grants... (they were given to poorer students - nothing like when us older folk got them - but handy for families without extra means nonetheless...)

Torn on that one - seemed fairly unchecked - I know a couple of folks got that, that almost certainly must've been a bit economical with the form filling to get it...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I am actually a little bit cross about the government's decision to retrospectively change the terms of the Student Finance contracts that students signed in 2012 and beyond..

no private company would get away with changing a contract retrospectively without the agreement of the other party - it seems fundamentally unjust - and basic bad behaviour - to do this... my son signed a legally binding contract with the Student Loans Company - the terms of that contract have now been changed...

I'm sure he'll survive - but surely this is bad governance in principle - if the idea becomes accepted that the govt can simply change contracts it is a part of in a one-sided and retrospective fashion... won't that simply stop people wanting to do business with the UK govt?

Not much different to the situation with their unilateral change to my missus's pension with the DfE, robbing bastards.

[thebish]

the govt have also quietly scrapped maintenance grants... (they were given to poorer students - nothing like when us older folk got them - but handy for families without extra means nonetheless...)

Torn on that one - seemed fairly unchecked - I know a couple of folks got that, that almost certainly must've been a bit economical with the form filling to get it...

aye - well - quite possibly - but if we scrapped everything that someone had once fiddled - then would have anything left at all??

[Worthy4England]

the govt have also quietly scrapped maintenance grants... (they were given to poorer students - nothing like when us older folk got them - but handy for families without extra means nonetheless...)

Torn on that one - seemed fairly unchecked - I know a couple of folks got that, that almost certainly must've been a bit economical with the form filling to get it...

aye - well - quite possibly - but if we scrapped everything that someone had once fiddled - then would have anything left at all??

No, we wouldn't but you wouldn't have had to look very far, to see these folks probably didn't qualify...so makes it worse for those that really need it. Infuriating.

[Bijou Bob]

I'm angry about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/j ... cept-arabs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Integration is the responsibility of us all, yet for over a million refugees that have entered Europe this year alone, it will be all but impossible.

I no longer live in Bolton, but the one thing that is clear looking around the town, is that the idea of multiculturism is a busted flush. Areas like Daubhill, Deane and Halliwell are divided on both ethnic and indeed sometimes tribal lines. The same can be said of Rochdale, Oldham, Burnley, Nelson, Keighley and large swathes of the North of England. Far from integrating over the past 40 years, we now have communities of 3rd and 4th generation families from the South East Asian area which are even less integrated than they were in the 1970's. Bolton has several primary schools where there are no children not from immigrant families and the secondary schools are starting to follow. Large numbers of female students are separated at age 11 and receive schooling apart from their siblings and contemporaries. Education beyond 16 or 18 for many is limited or impossible.

One of the biggest tragedies I have witnessed personally as an adult was that of a colleague at work, a beautiful and intelligent Pakistani girl who fought against the tide and won a place at university. She graduated with a 2;1 and again fought her family and the community in order to find work and build a career. I had to watch as she was married off against her will and better judgement to an illiterate barber from her 'home' village. In the weeks and months following, she was battered and worse, then was forced to leave work and hasn't left the town where she lives since. My colleagues who work in those communities report the same story on a daily basis.

Stories like the above are meat and drink to the right wing w4nkers that sport Britain First badges, but unless we face the inevitable, re-state the values for which our country should stand; democracy, decency, opportunity, we face a very, very bleak future with rising, not less Islamisation of public life, no integration of those who need help and support and less and less opportunity for women in minority communities. Integration is the responsibility of us all. My fear is that despite recent events, we are still too frightened to address crucial issues and make this work.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We will never address this ^ when the the likes of Cameron spout the continuous refrain that this has nothing to do with Islam when it's got everything to do with Islam. Multiculturalism my arse, we don't have Papua New Guinean tribesman hunting foxes in Sherwood Forest, nor Canadian Inuits not speaking to neighbouring Scots villages whilst fishing the local quota, nor Masai warriors setting up camp in Whipsnade. Even just using 'milticulturalism' as a label hides the pertinent fact. We're at war, on a global scale, over two fundamental ideologies Western v Islam. And they're winning, using infiltration as just one weapon.
That's my view. Now no doubt you'll stick a label on me and dismiss me as some right wing white fascist when I'm not. I celebrate all sorts of diversity in the human race. As a kid I dreamt of being a Sioux tribesman. I have the largest collection of ska and dub you'll ever come across. I have lived in and still love Japan and the Japanese. Ancient Egypt is still a culture I regard as one of the world's best. But Islam is not merely monotheist, it is a fundamental monoculturalist philosophy and it won't rest until we are all fxcking Muslim. Sod that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Oh and by the way, reorganising exams to fit in with Ramadan. Really just fxck off, and I do mean fxck off - like back to Pakistan, even if you were born here. # we ain't muslim bruv.

[TANGODANCER]

A question:

Do Muslims, particularly the extreme radicals, really want us all to convert to Islam? You see, over here Muslims worship freely and unrestrained in any way and there are mosques and prayer houses everywhere (There are two within fifty yards of my house in different directions). Our councils give planning permission to build mosques and respect the Muslim religion's right to worship, again without restraint (try getting a taxi between 12 and 2 'oclock midday on a Friday), and there are more than twenty registered mosques in Bolton alone. How many prayer house I can't imagine. I'm not sure of the truth that prayer houses are free of council tax? Places like Cheetham Hill are almost entirely Jewish owned. My point is this is a live and let live environ yet some Muslims still campaign for sharia law and don't want to observe our home country rules. Could any of us go into Iran, Iraq, Saudi or any other Muslim strongholds and worship with such freedom? Could we even walk down the street with such freedom? If we all converted to the Muslim religion, would that end war? The Sunni Muslims' greatest enemies are the Shia who are also Muslims, so what exactly is the Islam cause all about?

It seems to me that there are an awful lot of warmongers in the east using the promise of paradise to the brainless, helpless, poor and uneducated public to promote what exactly? Does a house in the U.K and benefits count as an earthly version of Paradise? The very thought of blowing up defenceless men,women and children ( and themselves in the bargain) in a public place ever causing any form of peace to emerge is just so uttely moronic that it's mind-boggling. Surely even the mad immans except that? Mind you, there is always the great satan that lives acros the big pond to use to rally the troops to chop off a few heads

What has any single war ever really proven except that it kills millions of people who, in the main, hardly know what they are fighting about? At the end of it all the Muslim extremists still want kill "Crusaders" ( whose only real crime is to worship a man who the Muslims themselves see as a good person, and is a term that stopped being used back in the thirteenth century,) So what does the Muslim cause mean really?

If this sounds a bit like a Sunday rant, well, I guess it is...pretty mild mind compared to a Hoboh though. Five out of ten?

[Prufrock]

I'm angry about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/j ... cept-arabs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Integration is the responsibility of us all, yet for over a million refugees that have entered Europe this year alone, it will be all but impossible.

I no longer live in Bolton, but the one thing that is clear looking around the town, is that the idea of multiculturism is a busted flush. Areas like Daubhill, Deane and Halliwell are divided on both ethnic and indeed sometimes tribal lines. The same can be said of Rochdale, Oldham, Burnley, Nelson, Keighley and large swathes of the North of England. Far from integrating over the past 40 years, we now have communities of 3rd and 4th generation families from the South East Asian area which are even less integrated than they were in the 1970's. Bolton has several primary schools where there are no children not from immigrant families and the secondary schools are starting to follow. Large numbers of female students are separated at age 11 and receive schooling apart from their siblings and contemporaries. Education beyond 16 or 18 for many is limited or impossible.

One of the biggest tragedies I have witnessed personally as an adult was that of a colleague at work, a beautiful and intelligent Pakistani girl who fought against the tide and won a place at university. She graduated with a 2;1 and again fought her family and the community in order to find work and build a career. I had to watch as she was married off against her will and better judgement to an illiterate barber from her 'home' village. In the weeks and months following, she was battered and worse, then was forced to leave work and hasn't left the town where she lives since. My colleagues who work in those communities report the same story on a daily basis.

Stories like the above are meat and drink to the right wing w4nkers that sport Britain First badges, but unless we face the inevitable, re-state the values for which our country should stand; democracy, decency, opportunity, we face a very, very bleak future with rising, not less Islamisation of public life, no integration of those who need help and support and less and less opportunity for women in minority communities. Integration is the responsibility of us all. My fear is that despite recent events, we are still too frightened to address crucial issues and make this work.

The scale of domestic abuse that goes on in the Asian community is frightening. Asian women have been failed horrendously by leftists who have shut down any debate on the topic by crying Islamophobia. I completely understand that leads to that, because what you describe did involve walking a fine line without victimising whole communities, but it has to happen.

[Worthy4England]

I'm angry about this: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/j ... cept-arabs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Integration is the responsibility of us all, yet for over a million refugees that have entered Europe this year alone, it will be all but impossible.

I no longer live in Bolton, but the one thing that is clear looking around the town, is that the idea of multiculturism is a busted flush. Areas like Daubhill, Deane and Halliwell are divided on both ethnic and indeed sometimes tribal lines. The same can be said of Rochdale, Oldham, Burnley, Nelson, Keighley and large swathes of the North of England. Far from integrating over the past 40 years, we now have communities of 3rd and 4th generation families from the South East Asian area which are even less integrated than they were in the 1970's. Bolton has several primary schools where there are no children not from immigrant families and the secondary schools are starting to follow. Large numbers of female students are separated at age 11 and receive schooling apart from their siblings and contemporaries. Education beyond 16 or 18 for many is limited or impossible.

One of the biggest tragedies I have witnessed personally as an adult was that of a colleague at work, a beautiful and intelligent Pakistani girl who fought against the tide and won a place at university. She graduated with a 2;1 and again fought her family and the community in order to find work and build a career. I had to watch as she was married off against her will and better judgement to an illiterate barber from her 'home' village. In the weeks and months following, she was battered and worse, then was forced to leave work and hasn't left the town where she lives since. My colleagues who work in those communities report the same story on a daily basis.

Stories like the above are meat and drink to the right wing w4nkers that sport Britain First badges, but unless we face the inevitable, re-state the values for which our country should stand; democracy, decency, opportunity, we face a very, very bleak future with rising, not less Islamisation of public life, no integration of those who need help and support and less and less opportunity for women in minority communities. Integration is the responsibility of us all. My fear is that despite recent events, we are still too frightened to address crucial issues and make this work.

I agree with most of the above, until I get to the last bit. As you possibly spotted, I don't think immigration is a dirty word and indeed I believe we need it to support our economic goals.

That said, I don't think it works nor do I believe it will work, surely the natural inclination of people is to head towards other people that are "like them" whether that's on racial, religious, same type of music, same colour hair bases - that seems to be to be a fairly basic human instinct. What makes you think integration is workable in anything other than a very long timescale?

[TANGODANCER]

What makes you think integration is workable in anything other than a very long timescale?

The relevant question in a sentence.

[Harry Genshaw]

I like the idea of seminars as mentioned in the article, as a way of explaining what is and isn't acceptable in western society. We must have hundreds of thousands of immigrants over the years who have come here and remained in enclaves representing a microcosm of the country and culture they've just left. That can't help integration.

The biggest challenge may be how do you allow devout Muslims to retain their religion and culture whilst at the same time recognising the freedoms (particularly for women) we enjoy in the west.