The Politics Thread

[malcd1]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

I have listened to this interview in full. First off she says up until recently she had little interest in politics. She said she has become more interested in recent years due to Trump and Brexit but still doesn't consider herself to be political.

So presumably, as she doesn't particularly like any of the main parties and the only one she feel she can vote for is the Conservative party means she has a hidden agenda? Whatever you saw in this interview I certainly didn't see it. Perhaps your political persuasion means you cannot watch it objectively as she doesn't agree with you. You do have a problem acknowledging people can have a different opinion from you without you either being suspicious or you thinking they are stupid.

I personally thought she came across well (for a red). I did not agree with everything she said but she entitled to her own opinion.

It screamed to me of "political plant". I mean there are big red flags in it. For example being prepared to say who she intends to vote for, but not who she has in the past voted for.

The comment that really opened my eyes was "the greens are just as bad". What on earth does that mean? If we're talking anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm not really sure what relevance the "Greens" have to it. It comes across as someone trying to say all the right words but they are in the wrong order. It wasn't the well thought through argument and to me it just feels like her friends like Berger have set her up for a crusade she doesn't fully understand.

As for political persuasion I know Labour voting Corbyn fans who would say the exact same thing. I always feel validated when both extremes tell me I'm wrong because usually it means I'm right!

I'm not sure she mean the Greens have been anti-Semitic, more she thought they were just as useless as Labour.

We disagree on the interview. That's fine and I'm OK with that.

The last part of your comment is interesting as it just means you are entrenched in your views and you disagree with people to the left or right of your personal political standpoint. That doesn't make you right and they are wrong.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our putative next Prime Minister. How much more stuff is out there to be dragged up against this Marxist wazzock:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/261722

Another hatchet job.

A headline that suggests he made a comment which on reading the body of the text he clearly didn't. Nice picture of him too!

Should kids attend a Palestinian literary festival? Sure, why not?

Should somebody, who happens to be going to the festival, have sprayed graffiti? Of course not.

Just another chapter in the smoke and mirrors attempts to label Corbyn an anti semite, whilst ensuring anyone promoting anything Palestinian will be fearful they're next.

Now - as you know I'm not a fan of Corbyn. I think he opens himself up to this criticism through his action/inaction. I think he knows many of those who put him where he is are anti-semitic and does not want to rock the boat. Which is shameful. And his stance on Europe means he's completely lost me.

However, I've been following the Rachel Riley storm over anti-semitism in the Labour party. I initially thought she was standing up for something she believed in and had a point. Then this week I watched her interview with Alastair Campbell on youtube....and rapidly changed my mind. It is an enlightening watch for anyone I think. Firstly she clearly is completely out of her depth and does not understand the issues at all. Secondly her frame of reference seems entirely limited to twitter trolls (who may be Corbyn supporters or may very well not be!). And thirdly her mask completely slipped midway through when she was asked who she'd vote for and revealed she'd vote Conservative in a heartbeat. And then made some throwaway "the greens are just as bad....and the Lib Dems can't win" comment. Which to me shows that she is essentially being influenced by others to do what she's doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwMhHPoxAg

I'm not with you on this entirely - but it certainly has the appearance of an attempt at personal smear being well orchestrated. As I've said before I do not remember the same personal vitriol directed at a PM who has deliberately pursued actual policies that she knew full well would incite racism.

I have listened to this interview in full. First off she says up until recently she had little interest in politics. She said she has become more interested in recent years due to Trump and Brexit but still doesn't consider herself to be political.

So presumably, as she doesn't particularly like any of the main parties and the only one she feel she can vote for is the Conservative party means she has a hidden agenda? Whatever you saw in this interview I certainly didn't see it. Perhaps your political persuasion means you cannot watch it objectively as she doesn't agree with you. You do have a problem acknowledging people can have a different opinion from you without you either being suspicious or you thinking they are stupid.

I personally thought she came across well (for a red). I did not agree with everything she said but she entitled to her own opinion.

It screamed to me of "political plant". I mean there are big red flags in it. For example being prepared to say who she intends to vote for, but not who she has in the past voted for.

The comment that really opened my eyes was "the greens are just as bad". What on earth does that mean? If we're talking anti-semitism in the Labour party I'm not really sure what relevance the "Greens" have to it. It comes across as someone trying to say all the right words but they are in the wrong order. It wasn't the well thought through argument and to me it just feels like her friends like Berger have set her up for a crusade she doesn't fully understand.

As for political persuasion I know Labour voting Corbyn fans who would say the exact same thing. I always feel validated when both extremes tell me I'm wrong because usually it means I'm right!

I'm not sure she mean the Greens have been anti-Semitic, more she thought they were just as useless as Labour.

We disagree on the interview. That's fine and I'm OK with that.

The last part of your comment is interesting as it just means you are entrenched in your views and you disagree with people to the left or right of your personal political standpoint. That doesn't make you right and they are wrong.

But her whole point was "I'm not political - I don't 'support' any of the parties, I just care about the horrible anti-semitism thing".

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

Another huge red flag - when she says "David Miliband would have been good". Inspite of the fact she seems unsure who he is and previously said she knows nothing about politics. Frankly I'm a David Miliband fan. He was my choice - I spent weeks arguing with @theBish about it. But DM was also the choice of Riley's friends in the TIG (the likes of Berger) and are you seriously telling me that she has no political insight yet knows about Miliband and his policy platform?

[TANGODANCER]

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

How so? Why are they unqualified to offer an opinion just because they may have one? All politics is about opinion to some degree unless you're related to Mystic Meg.

[BWFC_Insane]

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

How so? Why are they unqualified to offer an opinion just because they may have one? All politics is about opinion to some degree unless you're related to Mystic Meg.

I have no issue (and would actually encourage) anyone who has a political viewpoint to express it, including and especially celebrities.

The point was that she tried to engage in an in-depth interview with the premise that she was "not a political person" and had "no side" but wanted to talk about anti-semitism. But throughout the interview it became increasingly clear that she did have political opinions and those views were teased out of her by the excellent Campbell. Many of those rather superficial opinions she had did not seem fully formed nor informed in some cases. And it rather smacked of someone being set up.

[malcd1]

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

How so? Why are they unqualified to offer an opinion just because they may have one? All politics is about opinion to some degree unless you're related to Mystic Meg.

I have no issue (and would actually encourage) anyone who has a political viewpoint to express it, including and especially celebrities.

The point was that she tried to engage in an in-depth interview with the premise that she was "not a political person" and had "no side" but wanted to talk about anti-semitism. But throughout the interview it became increasingly clear that she did have political opinions and those views were teased out of her by the excellent Campbell. Many of those rather superficial opinions she had did not seem fully formed nor informed in some cases. And it rather smacked of someone being set up.

They were hardly 'teased' out of her as though against her will. Campbell was OK I suppose but excellent? Presumably you are a massive fan of his.

So Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair's spokesperson and campaign director of a previous Labour general election wanted to talk about Riley's criticism of the Labour party. What a surprise.

Rachel Riley who has come under on-line abuse for her criticism of the Labour parties anti-Semitism get 'grilled' by the excellent Campbell and confesses her dislike for the current leader and the direction they are going. No, I didn't see that coming and according to you neither did Riley. Good grief.

[Hoboh]

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

How so? Why are they unqualified to offer an opinion just because they may have one? All politics is about opinion to some degree unless you're related to Mystic Meg.

I have no issue (and would actually encourage) anyone who has a political viewpoint to express it, including and especially celebrities.

The point was that she tried to engage in an in-depth interview with the premise that she was "not a political person" and had "no side" but wanted to talk about anti-semitism. But throughout the interview it became increasingly clear that she did have political opinions and those views were teased out of her by the excellent Campbell. Many of those rather superficial opinions she had did not seem fully formed nor informed in some cases. And it rather smacked of someone being set up.

They were hardly 'teased' out of her as though against her will. Campbell was OK I suppose but excellent? Presumably you are a massive fan of his.

So Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair's spokesperson and campaign director of a previous Labour general election wanted to talk about Riley's criticism of the Labour party. What a surprise.

Rachel Riley who has come under on-line abuse for her criticism of the Labour parties anti-Semitism get 'grilled' by the excellent Campbell and confesses her dislike for the current leader and the direction they are going. No, I didn't see that coming and according to you neither did Riley. Good grief.

Wouldn't worry too much about Corbyn he is a useful but expendable tool of the McDonnells of this world.

[BWFC_Insane]

Which is fine. But the whole point is that clearly is not the case. If she thinks (and without any foundation or qualifying remarks that the Greens are "just as useless". Because that would suggest she's interviewing not about anti-semitism but about her political viewpoint and if so there are loads of celebs who can do so and are equally as unqualified to offer up their opinions.

How so? Why are they unqualified to offer an opinion just because they may have one? All politics is about opinion to some degree unless you're related to Mystic Meg.

I have no issue (and would actually encourage) anyone who has a political viewpoint to express it, including and especially celebrities.

The point was that she tried to engage in an in-depth interview with the premise that she was "not a political person" and had "no side" but wanted to talk about anti-semitism. But throughout the interview it became increasingly clear that she did have political opinions and those views were teased out of her by the excellent Campbell. Many of those rather superficial opinions she had did not seem fully formed nor informed in some cases. And it rather smacked of someone being set up.

They were hardly 'teased' out of her as though against her will. Campbell was OK I suppose but excellent? Presumably you are a massive fan of his.

So Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair's spokesperson and campaign director of a previous Labour general election wanted to talk about Riley's criticism of the Labour party. What a surprise.

Rachel Riley who has come under on-line abuse for her criticism of the Labour parties anti-Semitism get 'grilled' by the excellent Campbell and confesses her dislike for the current leader and the direction they are going. No, I didn't see that coming and according to you neither did Riley. Good grief.

Campbell is not exactly a Corbyn fan is he? If she’s not political and doesn’t have a side what’s with the ‘Greens are just as bad’ comment? And what does that have to do with anti semitism in the Labour Party?

[malcd1]

The only part I heard about anti-Semitism was against Labour and Corbyn. The Green party comment is probably about their incompetence similar to Labour rather than anti-Semitism surely? If in her opinion the Greens are insignificant and ineffective then she is entitled to that. I personally think you are reading too much into what she said.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only part I heard about anti-Semitism was against Labour and Corbyn. The Green party comment is probably about their incompetence similar to Labour rather than anti-Semitism surely? If in her opinion the Greens are insignificant and ineffective then she is entitled to that. I personally think you are reading too much into what she said.

But if she isn't interested in politics - what does she based that view on?

Where does a "non political" person dredge David Miliband up from? And why?

[malcd1]

The only part I heard about anti-Semitism was against Labour and Corbyn. The Green party comment is probably about their incompetence similar to Labour rather than anti-Semitism surely? If in her opinion the Greens are insignificant and ineffective then she is entitled to that. I personally think you are reading too much into what she said.

But if she isn't interested in politics - what does she based that view on?

Where does a "non political" person dredge David Miliband up from? And why?

No idea but I'm not sure you need a degree in politics to know who David Miliband is or that you would prefer him over Corbyn. As someone who has voted Labour most of my life, I would also have preferred David Miliband to Ed and definitely to Corbyn.

I have taken more of an interest in Politics as I get older. I didn't really know anything until I got my first house when I was around 27 and probably why I voted Labour in my earlier years.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only part I heard about anti-Semitism was against Labour and Corbyn. The Green party comment is probably about their incompetence similar to Labour rather than anti-Semitism surely? If in her opinion the Greens are insignificant and ineffective then she is entitled to that. I personally think you are reading too much into what she said.

But if she isn't interested in politics - what does she based that view on?

Where does a "non political" person dredge David Miliband up from? And why?

No idea but I'm not sure you need a degree in politics to know who David Miliband is or that you would prefer him over Corbyn. As someone who has voted Labour most of my life, I would also have preferred David Miliband to Ed and definitely to Corbyn.

I have taken more of an interest in Politics as I get older. I didn't really know anything until I got my first house when I was around 27 and probably why I voted Labour in my earlier years.

I too would have liked DM. Though EM as it turns out would have been a superb PM and probably one of the worst electoral mistakes (in hindsight) happened in 2015.

I just find it too coincidental that Riley was essentially put onto the case by the likes of Luciana Berger (someone I absolutely admire) but also a centrist Labour Blairite (as am I) - and "waged war against the anti-semitism" in the party, whilst saying she doesn't have a side, doesn't know much about politics, but would vote Tory in a heartbeat and dropped the lesser spotted Miliband (and darling of the Blairites now in the TIG) into the conversation.

[Bruce Rioja]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

[Enoch]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Oh come on, at least this one admits he's a comedian.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Oh come on, at least this one admits he's a comedian.

Miranda Whatserface can admit to being a comedian, doesn't make her one!

[Bruce Rioja]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Well, I guess that Ukrainians can point to Trump being in the Witehouse, the situation regarding Brexit here and justifiably claim 'Well you lot started it, we're just playing along'.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Well, I guess that Ukrainians can point to Trump being in the Witehouse, the situation regarding Brexit here and justifiably claim 'Well you lot started it, we're just playing along'.

Well, to be perfectly honest, way back in 1986, losing control of your one and only nuclear reactor looked like they were already run by comedians ...
Their political history since has been no more inspiring either.

[Bruce Rioja]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Well, I guess that Ukrainians can point to Trump being in the Witehouse, the situation regarding Brexit here and justifiably claim 'Well you lot started it, we're just playing along'.

Well, to be perfectly honest, way back in 1986, losing control of your one and only nuclear reactor looked like they were already run by comedians ...
Their political history since has been no more inspiring either.

We'll, I though it might be painfully obvious, but I'm talking about elected types.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

So, let me get this right.
A comedian with no political experience, who starred in a political satirical drama called Servant of the People in which his character accidentally became President of Ukraine, has just become President of Ukraine.
Is that right or is someone taking the piss?

The entire world is taking the piss mate.

Well, I guess that Ukrainians can point to Trump being in the Witehouse, the situation regarding Brexit here and justifiably claim 'Well you lot started it, we're just playing along'.

Well, to be perfectly honest, way back in 1986, losing control of your one and only nuclear reactor looked like they were already run by comedians ...
Their political history since has been no more inspiring either.

We'll, I though it might be painfully obvious, but I'm talking about elected types.

So was I. Kravchuk, Yanukovych, Kuchma, Poroshenko, Yuschenko, Lazarenko, Groysman, Tymoshenko... Fxcking jokes the lot of them. All elected.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

If Theresa May was a Saxon king she'd be known to history as Theresa the Boneheaded.
Corbyn would be Jeremy the Thick. And Cable would be Vincent the Useless. Sturgeon would be Nichola the Thrice Defeated.