Deal or no deal? - Summer 2022 Transfer gossip!

[BWFC_Insane]

I just don’t buy the suggestion that Santos is essential to beating the press.

He's not. He's essential to beating the press in a controlled way. As Evatt said, we ended up going over Accy's press. He wants us to be able to through the press, as it offers us more options and allows us to maintain possession.

To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit and we were really close to getting there this season; but we couldn't get everyone on the pitch at once.

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard. Perhaps I’m wrong but I can’t think of many games where Santos has looked like Beckenbauer and dictated the game from the back on the ball. I can think of many he’s played in where we’ve tried to play through the press and failed. I can also think of many where we’ve gone up to a target or in behind and looked bloody good at times.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful. We’ve struggled all season against that and it’s pretty clear the main reason stems from midfield. We lack the quality in there to move teams around and move the ball quickly enough.

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press. He mentioned this a few times earlier in the season when it was clear we lacked those options. So I think we now have options up front to offer up solutions. And we look no worse a team, I’d say a better one in fact, when we do play a bit more directly either to Bod or down the channels to Charles.

[TANGODANCER]

What is a fair price for Santos then? A million quid? Given the year on his contract…be nice if we could get him to sign an extension with a release clause.

Evatt's saying whoever comes after our players had better have deep pockets. You have been warned..

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I've been having a nosy again, looking for L1 centre-backs who might be available in summer. We know about Jack Iredale, we've mentioned Ross Sykes and Ghost has written his letter to Summer Santa about Jack Tucker, but here's a few I was only vaguely aware of if at all before hitting the research. I'd be interested to know what people thought of them as potential depth-adding signings, perhaps initially on loan but always with an eye on buy-develop-sell.

HAYDEN CARTER (Blackburn) - DOB 17.12.99, 6ft 2, right-footed
Stockport-born, was at City’s academy to age 14 and switched to Blackburn. Tall, can play anywhere across the back line or in midfield. Made his debut in the Champo for Blackburn while still a teenager but in the last two seasons has been sent on Jan-Jun loans to League One clubs.
Last spring he went to Burton, where he played every minute, scored a useful 4 in 24 and was their Player of the Year runner-up. This spring he’s gone to Pompey, where he got the local-rag MOTM on debut (“So composed and calm on the ball, had good positional awareness and also exhibited a great range of passing. Made some brilliant last-ditch tackles and was quick to move the ball forward and start attacks”),
This time he’s only scored one – albeit a 25-yarder against Oxford (“Caused so many problems when driving forward with the ball”) – but has again been a main stay and impressed the local journos (“For someone well over six foot tall, he is so comfortable on the ball, beating players better than most wingers can. Excellent in bringing the ball forward and trying to be a part of attacking moves”). Has usually been at centre-back, especially RCB in a three, but has also played right-back, including against us (he’s the one Kachunga bought the pengy off).
Bad news is last summer he signed a three-year extension but he sounds right up Evatt’s alley and if Blackburn want him close by, we might be just about perfect as a loan club.

ROMONY CRICHLOW (Huddersfield) - DOB 3.6.99 , 6ft 2, left-footed
Ball-playing left-sided centre-back, contracted to Huddersfield until summer 2023. Loaned to Swindon for first half of this season, did well in a back three, so he was recalled and immediately sent back out Plymouth (also a back-three side) – Steven Schumacher: "He is a good athlete who has good quality and a really nice left foot" – but hasn’t been able to dislodge his fellow left-footer Macauley Gillesphey from a solid black three.
"He's a really good lad, he seems to have an old head on young shoulders. He talks well, organises and has settled into the group. We know his qualities of what he brings to the team from a technical and a physical point of view. He seems to be doing okay. For someone so young to come in straight away and be as vocal as he was, it kind of surprised us because you can watch all the games, all the videos, and when it's not your team you are not listening. Fair play to him. He seems a really level-headed boy and I'm sure he will enjoy his time here."
Huddersfield clearly want him to prove himself a third-tier level and might not be happy to resend him to Plymouth (assuming they don't go up).

ZAK JULES (MK Dons) - DOB 2.7.97, 6ft3, left-footed
Older than the others here - he’s 25 in summer - Jules was signed by pass-masters MK Dons on last season’s winter deadline day after impressing at fourth-tier Walsall, where he played left-back as well as left centre-back. Self-described as "fast and good on the ball… quite quick and quite powerful, I have a half-decent left foot and I like to play a bit as well”. Russell Martin played him at wingback and LCB last season, but he’s founder it harder to get into Liam Manning’s improved side this season and was loaned to Fleetwood in January. Contracted to 2023 but seems surplus to Manning’s plans, especially if they go up.

CONOR MASTERSON (QPR) - DOB 8.9.98, 6ft 3, right-footed
Former Liverpool Academy and 13-cap Ireland U21 stopper whose career hasn't kicked on. Joined QPR in 2019, on a two-year deal since extended to 2023; has been loaned to three lower League One sides in the last two seasons (Swindon, Cambridge, Gillingham) and made 30-odd appearances despite a nasty hammy injury. Mark Warburton is said to rate him highly ("I think enormously of Conor") but wanted him to go on loan first; let's see if that's still the case.

MATTIE POLLOCK (Watford) - DOB 20.9.01, 6ft 3, right-footed
Jamie's lad. Was a midfielder in the Leeds academy, played 2.5 years for Grimsby (from age 17) and was signed by Watford last summer (still not yet 20) on a five-year deal for £250,000. They loaned him to Cheltenham, where he's made 30-odd appearances. Michael Duff describes him as "brave as a lion" and the lad did a stepover before crossing for a goal against Fleetwood. However, he's notably slow, so that might be a worry in our system.

[officer_dibble]

Was very impressed with Carter when he played here the other week…posted as much then I think he gave the pen away immediately! Still I like the look of him - do they want to keep loaning him out though?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Was very impressed with Carter when he played here the other week…posted as much then I think he gave the pen away immediately! Still I like the look of him - do they want to keep loaning him out though?

Always a reasonable question. He has played a few times for Blackburn's first team - appeared in their first five league games this season but after a double-yellow sending off, he struggled to get back in; his last appearance was as a sub in that bizarre 0-7 v Fulham.

Centre-back is not traditionally a position you can easily "blood" a young player in - whereas managers often rotate forwards or give young ones "minutes", you tend not to do that with centre-backs. It's definitely doing him much more good to be on loan so it depends how good they think he is, who else they might pick instead, and whether they strengthen that position in summer after a curious old season at Ewood.

The fact he's contracted until 2024 might make him more likely to go on one more exploratory loan - as Ghost notes, if a player in his final year is loaned out that's essentially the club giving up on him. But it very much depends on the situation at the parent club.

[brommers95]

A couple of Blackburn supporters I spoke to earlier seem to think Carter will be starting for Rovers next season (assuming they don’t get promoted) - apparently he’s seen as a natural replacement for Darragh Lenihan. You never know though, apparently they’ve got some financial wiggle room for new players so maybe Carter stays on the fringes of the squad if they bring in another CB or two.

Saw a bit of Crichlow when he was on loan at Swindon - looked decent, not outstanding but I wasn’t focussing on him in particular. I wonder if Markham still knows anyone at Huddersfield, wouldn’t surprise me to know he still has some useful contacts there…

Jules could be an interesting one. Like you say DSB, if MK go up you can’t see him playing at all in the Championship so will likely be made available for transfer. His defensive stats for this season don’t make for great reading but he has good ball playing ability and is athletic so there could be something for Evatt to work with there. I haven’t seen him in action for Fleetwood (had no idea he was even on loan there), so might have to watch a few of his recent performances.

Masterson really caught my eye when watching Gillingham games for Jack Tucker. Is physical, a brave defender and can play with the ball at his feet - made some good runs out from the back when I saw him. Considering his deal expires in 2023 - could be a good loanee to get in with a view to signing permanently.

Pollock is a good defender from what I’ve seen - he’d definiltey help with aerial prowess but the lack of mobility as you point out would probably be too much of a hinderance for him here.

[GhostoftheBok]

Masterson really caught my eye when watching Gillingham games for Jack Tucker. Is physical, a brave defender and can play with the ball at his feet - made some good runs out from the back when I saw him. Considering his deal expires in 2023 - could be a good loanee to get in with a few to signing permanently.

Agree on this.

[officer_dibble]

Jamie pollocks lad is slow! Quelle supris! Have we had any father / son combinations play for us before? I know we had Colin and Andy Todd as a manager/son.

[GhostoftheBok]

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press.

I've left in the three bits that sum up what you said.

The first one is just you not liking Santos. There's no point going over it. He's one of the best players in the division. He looks likely to win our player of the season. You think he's a donkey. People have their views on the game, but there's no point in spending much time on this one again.

The second I'm not sure what to say. People have shown you multiple examples over the season of us playing through the compartments and you've just flatly said it hasn't happened. So again, there's little point to going over it again.

On the last one, you ignored what I said. What I said was, "To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit..."

So yes Evatt has shown he wants the option to go to a big man or in behind. That's exactly what I said above and what I've said since he arrived. He also wants the options to play out, which is the approach he's repeatedly said should be our bread and butter. Losing Santos makes it harder for us to do that. You don't think it does, but that's down to you not liking the player and that's not going to change regardless of how much we talk about it.

[GhostoftheBok]

Jamie pollocks lad is slow! Quelle supris! Have we had any father / son combinations play for us before? I know we had Colin and Andy Todd as a manager/son.

Special mention goes to the Andersons.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press.

I've left in the three bits that sum up what you said.

The first one is just you not liking Santos. There's no point going over it. He's one of the best players in the division. He looks likely to win our player of the season. You think he's a donkey. People have their views on the game, but there's no point in spending much time on this one again.

The second I'm not sure what to say. People have shown you multiple examples over the season of us playing through the compartments and you've just flatly said it hasn't happened. So again, there's little point to going over it again.

On the last one, you ignored what I said. What I said was, "To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit..."

So yes Evatt has shown he wants the option to go to a big man or in behind. That's exactly what I said above and what I've said since he arrived. He also wants the options to play out, which is the approach he's repeatedly said should be our bread and butter. Losing Santos makes it harder for us to do that. You don't think it does, but that's down to you not liking the player and that's not going to change regardless of how much we talk about it.

What examples are there and how many are there of goals we’ve scored that Santos was an irreplaceable factor or start of them?

I haven’t seen any examples but if you have a string of them then I’m all ears.

[Mar]

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press.

I've left in the three bits that sum up what you said.

The first one is just you not liking Santos. There's no point going over it. He's one of the best players in the division. He looks likely to win our player of the season. You think he's a donkey. People have their views on the game, but there's no point in spending much time on this one again.

The second I'm not sure what to say. People have shown you multiple examples over the season of us playing through the compartments and you've just flatly said it hasn't happened. So again, there's little point to going over it again.

On the last one, you ignored what I said. What I said was, "To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit..."

So yes Evatt has shown he wants the option to go to a big man or in behind. That's exactly what I said above and what I've said since he arrived. He also wants the options to play out, which is the approach he's repeatedly said should be our bread and butter. Losing Santos makes it harder for us to do that. You don't think it does, but that's down to you not liking the player and that's not going to change regardless of how much we talk about it.

It's strange as I've often read Insanes posts under the impression that he doesn't like a player but I don't think that this is the case. I do however get the impression that he doesn't like the dribbling out from the back and would very much like a get it forward quicker and take it from there. I think Santos epitomises being casual on the ball and I suspect that is where the majority of Insanes criticism comes from. I don't think he dislikes Santos necessarily but in order to counter the Santos love in he has to risk making him come across as critical. Feel free to correct me if you genuinely dislike him Insane.

For me, losing Santos would be a step backward, selling him might be a step forward but that is fraught with risk. Increasing the length of contract would be good but that would come as a risk for Santos who undoubtedly is at the best bargaining point in his career. He might not get this bargaining position again and hopefully he doesn't end up making the wrong call ala Michael Ricketts. Santos plays well in our system and moving clubs might just make him look crap. One year extension would help kick the decision a year down the line so that might be good for both parties

[Mar]

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press.

I've left in the three bits that sum up what you said.

The first one is just you not liking Santos. There's no point going over it. He's one of the best players in the division. He looks likely to win our player of the season. You think he's a donkey. People have their views on the game, but there's no point in spending much time on this one again.

The second I'm not sure what to say. People have shown you multiple examples over the season of us playing through the compartments and you've just flatly said it hasn't happened. So again, there's little point to going over it again.

On the last one, you ignored what I said. What I said was, "To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit..."

So yes Evatt has shown he wants the option to go to a big man or in behind. That's exactly what I said above and what I've said since he arrived. He also wants the options to play out, which is the approach he's repeatedly said should be our bread and butter. Losing Santos makes it harder for us to do that. You don't think it does, but that's down to you not liking the player and that's not going to change regardless of how much we talk about it.

What examples are there and how many are there of goals we’ve scored that Santos was an irreplaceable factor or start of them?

I haven’t seen any examples but if you have a string of them then I’m all ears.

Not as simple as that and you know it. Like Jones' contribution to the side its hard to fully acknowledge it till its gone. Santos' stats speak for themselves and its clear he's a top player at this level. Defenders aren't know for their goal involvements but he has clearly been a factor in getting the ball out of our half.

[GhostoftheBok]

It's strange as I've often read Insanes posts under the impression that he doesn't like a player but I don't think that this is the case. I do however get the impression that he doesn't like the dribbling out from the back and would very much like a get it forward quicker and take it from there. I think Santos epitomises being casual on the ball and I suspect that is where the majority of Insanes criticism comes from. I don't think he dislikes Santos necessarily but in order to counter the Santos love in he has to risk making him come across as critical. Feel free to correct me if you genuinely dislike him Insane.

I'm going to respectfully disagree there, Mar.

Santos has a bad attitude. Stands there blaming others waving his arms round yet is a non league donkey. Completely fed up. We shunted Sarcevic out who was a leader and could play at this level. Yet we have to watch that absolute donkey play his half hearted soft as shite game at centre half week in week out. And naming him as captain is a complete insult to the club.

People claimed we didn’t need a centre half. Yet it’s the biggest priority. Evatt’s judgement has to be questioned given how poor we are there.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think it’s massively overstating what he offers in this regard.

I can’t honestly recall many times we played through a real press front to back in a way I’d call successful

I also don’t buy the ‘Evatt wants to play like this’ thing. He’s shown that what he wants is the options to play to a target or go in behind the press.

I've left in the three bits that sum up what you said.

The first one is just you not liking Santos. There's no point going over it. He's one of the best players in the division. He looks likely to win our player of the season. You think he's a donkey. People have their views on the game, but there's no point in spending much time on this one again.

The second I'm not sure what to say. People have shown you multiple examples over the season of us playing through the compartments and you've just flatly said it hasn't happened. So again, there's little point to going over it again.

On the last one, you ignored what I said. What I said was, "To play Evatt's ideal way you need to be able to go through the press, up to a target, in behind the fullbacks and over the top. It's about having all the tools in the toolkit..."

So yes Evatt has shown he wants the option to go to a big man or in behind. That's exactly what I said above and what I've said since he arrived. He also wants the options to play out, which is the approach he's repeatedly said should be our bread and butter. Losing Santos makes it harder for us to do that. You don't think it does, but that's down to you not liking the player and that's not going to change regardless of how much we talk about it.

What examples are there and how many are there of goals we’ve scored that Santos was an irreplaceable factor or start of them?

I haven’t seen any examples but if you have a string of them then I’m all ears.

Not as simple as that and you know it. Like Jones' contribution to the side its hard to fully acknowledge it till its gone. Santos' stats speak for themselves and its clear he's a top player at this level. Defenders aren't know for their goal involvements but he has clearly been a factor in getting the ball out of our half.

In this case it is that simple because the argument is Santos is crucial to playing through the lines. So if that is true and it’s a successful way to play, which is the argument then there should be a string of examples.

I was told that I’d ignored all the examples yet unless I’ve missed something I don’t see examples provided in this thread.

We’ve seen of late that we are more effective playing up to a striker or in behind to pace against the press. Options we didn’t have at the start of the season but now we have them seem pretty effective. I’m not sure either rely on Santos.

In terms of Santos I don’t think he’s as good as people make out. I think aerially he’s critical to us and without his height we look a small team. His recovery is also absolutely outstanding at this level. But his reading of the game is average, his defending of the box at times is sloppy and he slows our game down on the ball way too much at times. I certainly don’t see him as Beckenbauer as is being made out. I’d say that he hasn’t had great centre halves with him this season and with a partner who can do what Baptiste did in league two at this level he’d form a good defensive unit. But it needs that sort. And if he went I think we’d cope absolutely fine. But then I think we can cope with losing any single player right now.

[Mar]

It's strange as I've often read Insanes posts under the impression that he doesn't like a player but I don't think that this is the case. I do however get the impression that he doesn't like the dribbling out from the back and would very much like a get it forward quicker and take it from there. I think Santos epitomises being casual on the ball and I suspect that is where the majority of Insanes criticism comes from. I don't think he dislikes Santos necessarily but in order to counter the Santos love in he has to risk making him come across as critical. Feel free to correct me if you genuinely dislike him Insane.

I'm going to respectfully disagree there, Mar.

Santos has a bad attitude. Stands there blaming others waving his arms round yet is a non league donkey. Completely fed up. We shunted Sarcevic out who was a leader and could play at this level. Yet we have to watch that absolute donkey play his half hearted soft as shite game at centre half week in week out. And naming him as captain is a complete insult to the club.

People claimed we didn’t need a centre half. Yet it’s the biggest priority. Evatt’s judgement has to be questioned given how poor we are there.

Ha, lovely use of quotes there Ghost, I stand corrected. I must read selectively, clearly. And heres me thinking that is was just down to our use of tactics.

[TonyDomingos]

Jamie pollocks lad is slow! Quelle supris! Have we had any father / son combinations play for us before? I know we had Colin and Andy Todd as a manager/son.

Special mention goes to the Andersons.

In that vein, wasn't BSA's son an agent too?

And what about the Jääskeläinens?

[Mar]

In this case it is that simple because the argument is Santos is crucial to playing through the lines. So if that is true and it’s a successful way to play, which is the argument then there should be a string of examples.

The entirety of last season pretty much highlighted how useful Santos was to how we play. I'm sure you could counter that with there are other ways to play, but given Evatt's style and how its been working so far it would seem strange to shift to just for the sake of it.

I was told that I’d ignored all the examples yet unless I’ve missed something I don’t see examples provided in this thread.

Not quite examples but stats nontheless:

https://twitter.com/HenshawAnalysis/sta ... 99/photo/1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOaJ9rkWUAQ ... name=large

[TANGODANCER]

Without wishing to be too "No-shxt Sherlock" There's often a huge chasm between how things are and how we'd like them to be. Very evident in this league particularly where nobody will mortgage their house on a single game result. Like Sandie Shaw once said (sang) "One minute I can be down on the ground; Next I'm up in the air. " Can't find anything by Nostradamus as to our future, so it's hope springing eternal week to week and a recurring stick or twist shout. It's no new thing, been that way for many a year and all the the fun of the fair sallies on..

[GhostoftheBok]

Thought it was worth popping this here. So impressive, given what he's gone through with injuries this season.

Screenshot 2022-04-23 005924.png (2.59 MiB) Viewed 859 times