The Politics Thread

[TANGODANCER]

Entwistle (as in Kirith Entwistle, a local councillor) is a surname totally unique to Lancashire. Of more of a personal concern, it was also my mothers ( R.I.P.)surname. Oh Heck, hey up, go careful Mrs!..

[BWFC_Insane]

Entwistle (as in Kirith Entwistle, a local councillor) is a surname totally unique to Lancashire. Of more of a personal concern, it was also my mothers ( R.I.P.)surname. Oh Heck, hey up, go careful Mrs!..

MP isn’t she?

[BWFC_Insane]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

I’m going to put this bluntly. Those who under international law have no right to asylum here are returned to places like Albania. Indeed we are currently ramping up returns and hitting record numbers.

The problem is this. Under international law people have a right to come here and claim asylum. And if they meet the criteria they gain asylum here. More countries have people fleeing who meet this right, coupled with the reality that people are more able to arrive here and elsewhere. It’s a global issue. They aren’t only arriving here.

The issue is what to do with them. They in many cases are people who if returned would potentially be killed or persecuted or whatever. We could change international law via cooperation internationally to tighten who could claim asylum. We could work internationally to deal with a problem that is only getting worse. I don’t know what the solution would be - you can’t stop people moving round the world - agreed quotas? Or a bidding process? I don’t know.

The problem is only going to get worse as the world heats up and food scarcity becomes a greater issue. Many in west Africa for example are being displaced by frequent flash floods. Didn’t happen twenty years ago. But does now. What isn’t going to be a solution is just shutting up and saying ‘nobody comes in here’ unless we are prepared to flout international law and just shoot folk. And if we do that and everyone else does they still come and find ways to enter.

[Worthy4England]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

I reckon first two paras are about correct (although I'd take "took for granted" as spin on the grounds they didn't have much room to move), but tied to the third para quite a lot.

Inflation can be 15%, but only if cost of living is outstripping it for the workforce, so they don't notice it. What we've just witnessed in UK since 2019 is the first parliament that's lowered living standards over a full term, since 1961 - it managed this across pretty much every decile that's measured - good ole trickle down, eh? I suspect that's little different in the US although I've not looked at their living standards measures - I'd be surprised to see it was much different.

What we've seen since "the Great Recession" has been bad for working people of all income levels. Everywhere, for a long period, irrespective of whether there's a blue or red government holding the reigns. Median income grew 6% in 14 years - that's about 20% of what would have been expected, pre-2008. For those who think "the (taxable) better off" always escape, it's been lower at the 90% percentile. The middle band were probably best off out of all this. People think they've gone backwards, because they have.

The thing that's wrong isn't politics - this isn't going to be solved by politics, unless those politics change how the economic model works - no one has the balls to do that, because they're then "lefties" (or in the case of Truss, "righties"), and governments are controlled by the markets - the one thing both governments tell us we need.

Whilst all this has been ongoing for 15 years, businesses have been buying themselves back, and their profits keep rising at a much faster pace than the paltry salaries they pay most folks. This is rarely talked about and both parties manifest "enemies of the state" - "boat people," "the (taxable) rich," etc. to save us talking about it. They don't even publish and put front and centre, the measures of business health - why? Because it would then be very easy for people to understand, when the Government (either colour) say "there's no money," where it's actually gone.

It's a shit butty whichever way you vote, it will make hardly a ha'porth of difference. Reform are no better. Why? Because they're all proposing tinkering with a broken system rather than changing it to work for all.

[Hoboh]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

[BWFC_Insane]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Very complex. Definitely a rise of populism maybe because majority now don’t remember what happened last time. Heard historians say that every few generations a major war happens to change behaviour. I worry that’s where the world is headed.

[Worthy4England]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

[BWFC_Insane]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

And this. Coupled with new form of communication that reaches lots of people who are disaffected.

In 1930’s fascists used new radio to reach the populous that previously was hard to speak to.

Now it’s social media. Which in many ways is perfect for the easy (but not true) answers.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

That's fine. Let them apply from wherever and say no you aint coming in. Currently there is no way to ask to come in without rudely turning up.

[Worthy4England]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

That's fine. Let them apply from wherever and say no you aint coming in. Currently there is no way to ask to come in without rudely turning up.

So, I think you're saying, Hobes, you're absolutely fine with the main bulk of people entering the country? I mean there's roughly 1.1m /1.2m through legal migration every year at the moment. There's what? less than 50,000 come across in boats? Is that where you're at?

[Hoboh]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

That's fine. Let them apply from wherever and say no you aint coming in. Currently there is no way to ask to come in without rudely turning up.

So, I think you're saying, Hobes, you're absolutely fine with the main bulk of people entering the country? I mean there's roughly 1.1m /1.2m through legal migration every year at the moment. There's what? less than 50,000 come across in boats? Is that where you're at?

I'm saying that legal migration can be controlled, Australia being a prime case and in a nutshell, that is controlling your borders.

[Hoboh]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

I would say there is a lot more in play than just that. Freedom of movement is the biggest single enabler of criminal activity and a drain on not infinite public funds for starters and that's before you take on different cultures and ways of thinking.
There are, I admit, no easy answers but the last couple of decades of the softly, softly approach do not seem to be working, if anything it is exasperating the problems.

[BWFC_Insane]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

That's fine. Let them apply from wherever and say no you aint coming in. Currently there is no way to ask to come in without rudely turning up.

So, I think you're saying, Hobes, you're absolutely fine with the main bulk of people entering the country? I mean there's roughly 1.1m /1.2m through legal migration every year at the moment. There's what? less than 50,000 come across in boats? Is that where you're at?

I'm saying that legal migration can be controlled, Australia being a prime case and in a nutshell, that is controlling your borders.

Last year Australia let in over 1M immigrants. It’s a land of immigrants. And they want more people. It’s also considerably harder to reach illegally than here but also considerably easier to go to legally.

[Hoboh]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

And this. Coupled with new form of communication that reaches lots of people who are disaffected.

In 1930’s fascists used new radio to reach the populous that previously was hard to speak to.

Now it’s social media. Which in many ways is perfect for the easy (but not true) answers.

But, you cannot aim that at any one particular group, they are all on the same bandwagon when chasing power.
For me, the biggest danger are older people in places like the education system who are tilting things towards their way of thinking when, let's face it, Youth doesn't usually do any thoughts past the previous days events yet are being influenced without seeing others sides of the coin.

[Hoboh]

I've been reading a fair bit today about the US election and ignoring, yes I really do find it amusing, grenades being lobbed about by the Dems, it's Clooney's fault, it's Bidens fault, it's Oprah and her pals fault, it seems there is a whole lot more.

Trumps share of voters in areas he shouldn't be accumulating votes has shifted from the Dems, who frankly and this seems the general consensus, took the folk for granted.
All the things Latinos and others mentioned are all relevant to things in the UK, inflation, cost of living/energy and migration, people stating, I came here the correct way and now these illegals will be stealing my job etc. One other point I've seen a few times and I know this definitely will upset one or two on here, they said we came here to escape socialist politics that were ruining our countries, we don't need it here.

The thing is Hobes, the vast majority of immigrants are legal. The Tories have been letting them in with visas and to cover the fact they're distracting you with the boats and illegal immigration. The boats won't go away until you allow folk to legitimately apply to come here (whether you say yes or no is another matter).

We already do allow folk to come here by legal routes, Afghans, Hong Kong, Ukrainians, but I draw the line at pick n chose where to stay African migrants and others not fleeing war, Albania etc.

That's fine. Let them apply from wherever and say no you aint coming in. Currently there is no way to ask to come in without rudely turning up.

So, I think you're saying, Hobes, you're absolutely fine with the main bulk of people entering the country? I mean there's roughly 1.1m /1.2m through legal migration every year at the moment. There's what? less than 50,000 come across in boats? Is that where you're at?

I'm saying that legal migration can be controlled, Australia being a prime case and in a nutshell, that is controlling your borders.

Last year Australia let in over 1M immigrants. It’s a land of immigrants. And they want more people. It’s also considerably harder to reach illegally than here but also considerably easier to go to legally.

Easier? Knowing a few folk who have gone down under friends and some family members, I can assure you, it ain't that easy, plus you can have your visa/residency revoked for what to a lot view as pretty trivial things.

[Hoboh]

Oh dear

Sadiq Khan accused of 'sell-out' as Tube drivers are offered a four-day week, paid lunch breaks and an above-inflation pay rise to stop London Underground strikes

Pals on the Labour bandwagon, AGAIN!

[Hoboh]

This is the moment for truth
Convicted felon Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States. Just as we did in 2016, we will hold the coming administration to account and rigorously challenge what will come.

This is a perilous time for America and the world.

***

But we have something powerful on our side.

We’ve got you.

The Guardian is funded by its readers and the only person who decides what we publish is our editor.

If you want to join us in our mission to share independent, global journalism to the world, we’d love to have you on side.

Please choose to support us today. It only takes a minute and you can cancel at any time. Thank you.

Surely a prime example of begging?

[Worthy4England]

Hardly one sided, Hobo. Grifter.

djt-1.jpg (10.56 KiB) Viewed 3260 times

[BWFC_Insane]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

And this. Coupled with new form of communication that reaches lots of people who are disaffected.

In 1930’s fascists used new radio to reach the populous that previously was hard to speak to.

Now it’s social media. Which in many ways is perfect for the easy (but not true) answers.

But, you cannot aim that at any one particular group, they are all on the same bandwagon when chasing power.
For me, the biggest danger are older people in places like the education system who are tilting things towards their way of thinking when, let's face it, Youth doesn't usually do any thoughts past the previous days events yet are being influenced without seeing others sides of the coin.

There is no group of people in an education system. The problem you have is that societal norms and opinions change. This isn’t because of indoctrination but because people and societies evolve over time.

The lie is pretending that it’s some establishment plot that’s driving it. Yet it’s the ultra richest members of society selling that lie. How ironic. Were these movements led by people who were poor and not in the establishment we could maybe talk again. But they aren’t.

[Hoboh]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

And this. Coupled with new form of communication that reaches lots of people who are disaffected.

In 1930’s fascists used new radio to reach the populous that previously was hard to speak to.

Now it’s social media. Which in many ways is perfect for the easy (but not true) answers.

But, you cannot aim that at any one particular group, they are all on the same bandwagon when chasing power.
For me, the biggest danger are older people in places like the education system who are tilting things towards their way of thinking when, let's face it, Youth doesn't usually do any thoughts past the previous days events yet are being influenced without seeing others sides of the coin.

There is no group of people in an education system. The problem you have is that societal norms and opinions change. This isn’t because of indoctrination but because people and societies evolve over time.

The lie is pretending that it’s some establishment plot that’s driving it. Yet it’s the ultra richest members of society selling that lie. How ironic. Were these movements led by people who were poor and not in the establishment we could maybe talk again. But they aren’t.

Lies?

Do you know anything about how the left really work?

Unions were slowly taken over by people with extreme views working on fear and they were promoting 'the right thing'

Many Uni lecturers worked at promoting lefti ideology from the inside

And pray tell, did momentum just suddenly appear and control the labour party? No, they worked from the inside and upwards.

I saw this in the 70's when you were a union member or no job, I've seen these people in action at branch meetings, toe the line or suffer the consequences, please don't try and tell me these things don't exist.

Yes, may come as a surprise to you, but I do agree there are those on the otherside as well, neither are good for normal working law abiding citizens.