The Politics Thread

[BWFC_Insane]

Blimey, I've been that tied into the US election I'd no idea the German government is on the point of collapse.
Just shows, it can happen anywhere and doing a quick dip behind the scenes, German economy ain't doing very well, this being one of the reasons.
Wow, the French as well with the ever growing war with Mexican type drug cartels, what on earth is going on?

Out of control capitalism. Leaving governments of any persuasion, little room to effect a change, and few winners or losers within the working base. Just losers (overall).

And this. Coupled with new form of communication that reaches lots of people who are disaffected.

In 1930’s fascists used new radio to reach the populous that previously was hard to speak to.

Now it’s social media. Which in many ways is perfect for the easy (but not true) answers.

But, you cannot aim that at any one particular group, they are all on the same bandwagon when chasing power.
For me, the biggest danger are older people in places like the education system who are tilting things towards their way of thinking when, let's face it, Youth doesn't usually do any thoughts past the previous days events yet are being influenced without seeing others sides of the coin.

There is no group of people in an education system. The problem you have is that societal norms and opinions change. This isn’t because of indoctrination but because people and societies evolve over time.

The lie is pretending that it’s some establishment plot that’s driving it. Yet it’s the ultra richest members of society selling that lie. How ironic. Were these movements led by people who were poor and not in the establishment we could maybe talk again. But they aren’t.

Lies?

Do you know anything about how the left really work?

Unions were slowly taken over by people with extreme views working on fear and they were promoting 'the right thing'

Many Uni lecturers worked at promoting lefti ideology from the inside

And pray tell, did momentum just suddenly appear and control the labour party? No, they worked from the inside and upwards.

I saw this in the 70's when you were a union member or no job, I've seen these people in action at branch meetings, toe the line or suffer the consequences, please don't try and tell me these things don't exist.

Yes, may come as a surprise to you, but I do agree there are those on the otherside as well, neither are good for normal working law abiding citizens.

Loads of the blue collar working class folk who your mate Farage wants to vote for him are in unions. Many of them will have leadership roles in unions. I don’t think those people are the ones going round trying to make everyone vegan. And neither do you.

Everything you claim here is built on division and prejudice. But also not really understanding stuff.

Momentum sprung out of old style left wing rich folk realising there was a nu left student base they could monopolise. How is that any different to reform? Two cheeks of the same arse - you just happen to agree with one. I find both repulsive. But it’s the same thing. Farage tells people there is an establishment conspiracy or whatever nonsense he comes up with is exactly the same sort of tactic momentum use. They prey on people who aren’t happy.

But I find it ironic in the extreme that Farage is telling people they should be angry with the fact they’ve got no money and barely get paid when he’s described ultra capitalist Truss budget as ‘the best in existence’ and his whole history is peddling capitalism and promoting the interests of the rich elite. Same as Trump. They do a very good job of persuading people they are on their side yet there is an awful lot of evidence if someone chooses to look that they aren’t.

Always beware the easy answers as they are almost always a massive trap.

Look at it this way. The great twentieth century proponents of free market conservative economics, Thatcher and Reagan would have to be considered left wing nut jobs if what Trump and Farage say is true. Thatcher believed in law and order and respecting institutions. She waged war against football hooligans. I guess she was woke before her time in this world.

The bottom line is this. People want more money. They rightly identify that capitalism and corporate greed means they don’t have that money. But wrongly switch to right wing populism that blames and others religions, races and political opponents. That’s the 30’s all over again. Exactly. What will Farage or Trump do about corporate excess and greed? How will they ensure more equal distribution of money? Richest man in the world Musk - how’s he going to ensure the wealth of the richest 1% is distributed?

It’s a joke - I don’t even think people believe it. They just are angry.

[Hoboh]

Okay, we differ and I ain't going to drag this out but I feel referring to a 'left wing student base' kind of falls into exactly what I've been saying. One other thing is,it aint all about being rich, it's the power being the driving force.

[Worthy4England]

Okay, we differ and I ain't going to drag this out but I feel referring to a 'left wing student base' kind of falls into exactly what I've been saying. One other thing is,it aint all about being rich, it's the power being the driving force.

Really?

1907-_Income_inequality_and_union_participation.svg.png (121.17 KiB) Viewed 2898 times

I find this graph quite interesting.

Are you sure it's not about being rich?

You don't think Elon supporting Trump is about anything other than getting more funding from the US taxpayers for things like hyperloop and Space X? Wonder why Trump want's to go to the moon or Mars? SpaceX has been granted billions from the US taxpayer.

So yes it's about power, but you don't get a shit-load of that without money.

[BWFC_Insane]

Okay, we differ and I ain't going to drag this out but I feel referring to a 'left wing student base' kind of falls into exactly what I've been saying. One other thing is,it aint all about being rich, it's the power being the driving force.

Really?

1907-_Income_inequality_and_union_participation.svg.png

I find this graph quite interesting.

Are you sure it's not about being rich?

You don't think Elon supporting Trump is about anything other than getting more funding from the US taxpayers for things like hyperloop and Space X? Wonder why Trump want's to go to the moon or Mars? SpaceX has been granted billions from the US taxpayer.

So yes it's about power, but you don't get a shit-load of that without money.

Yeah what a graph that is. We’ve heard from across America people voted for Trump cos they didn’t have enough money. Things cost too much and their wages haven’t risen. I’m looking forward to how sacking a bunch of public servants is going to make everyone in America richer.

[Worthy4England]

Well me owd cocker, the Dems didn't make 'em richer either. Like the Tories over the same timeframe...politics is about people...

[BWFC_Insane]

Well me owd cocker, the Dems didn't make 'em richer either. Like the Tories over the same timeframe...politics is about people...

They didn’t indeed. But they did at least bring unemployment down by a significant amount and get the economy moving.

The point is that people thinking Trump or Farage are going to make them economically better off - are going to be ultimately sorely disappointed. Unless of course they are happy to keep being distracted by division…

[Worthy4England]

Yes, but they don't mind that much about lower unemployment - it's minor in the grand scheme, to anyone, other than a minority who didn't have a job, but now have one. Not a vote winner. If Trump happens to hit a slight economic upturn, he'll be a comparative God.

Most taxpayers don't give a shit, outside of "Am I better able to pay the rent, put food on the table and heat the house." If they are, compared to their peer group, that's good. What else should they accept? Fcuking muppets. It's not like the world is getting poorer at a macro level, they've just spent too much time getting conditioned by Rupert Murdoch.

[Hoboh]

Yes, but they don't mind that much about lower unemployment - it's minor in the grand scheme, to anyone, other than a minority who didn't have a job, but now have one. Not a vote winner. If Trump happens to hit a slight economic upturn, he'll be a comparative God.

Most taxpayers don't give a shit, outside of "Am I better able to pay the rent, put food on the table and heat the house." If they are, compared to their peer group, that's good. What else should they accept? Fcuking muppets. It's not like the world is getting poorer at a macro level, they've just spent too much time getting conditioned by Rupert Murdoch.

Simply basics, for anything else you need to be an MP and get life's luxuries for free.

[Hoboh]

Well me owd cocker, the Dems didn't make 'em richer either. Like the Tories over the same timeframe...politics is about people...

They didn’t indeed. But they did at least bring unemployment down by a significant amount and get the economy moving.

The point is that people thinking Trump or Farage are going to make them economically better off - are going to be ultimately sorely ndisappointed. Unless of course they are happy to keep being distracted by division…
/quote]

It isn't only just about money though is it? It's about safety and security as well.
Most of the increase in US unemployment was down to the pandemic after which some recovery was inevitable.

[Worthy4England]

Well me owd cocker, the Dems didn't make 'em richer either. Like the Tories over the same timeframe...politics is about people...

They didn’t indeed. But they did at least bring unemployment down by a significant amount and get the economy moving.

The point is that people thinking Trump or Farage are going to make them economically better off - are going to be ultimately sorely ndisappointed. Unless of course they are happy to keep being distracted by division…

It isn't only just about money though is it? It's about safety and security as well.
Most of the increase in US unemployment was down to the pandemic after which some recovery was inevitable.

Less inevitable when you offset, cost of living "crisis" driving inflation up.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well me owd cocker, the Dems didn't make 'em richer either. Like the Tories over the same timeframe...politics is about people...

They didn’t indeed. But they did at least bring unemployment down by a significant amount and get the economy moving.

The point is that people thinking Trump or Farage are going to make them economically better off - are going to be ultimately sorely ndisappointed. Unless of course they are happy to keep being distracted by division…

It isn't only just about money though is it? It's about safety and security as well.
Most of the increase in US unemployment was down to the pandemic after which some recovery was inevitable.

Seems to have been about the economy in america. And I’m not sure what you mean by safety and security but I guess if you go down the populist dictatorship route it might be safe for ‘the right side’ for a while. Is that really safety and security?

[boltonboris]

Gun toting MAGA redknecks are a much bigger threat to security that a group of Latino immigrants.

That's been proven time and time again

[Worthy4England]

Reeves, Mansion House, seems to have gone ga ga. Wants to deregulate financial markets for growth. I hear you, Rachael. Has the taxpayer finished paying for the last deregulated crash yet? (Answer: No, it's still on the bail out balance sheet)...It's like listening to boom n bust Lawson in the 80's...

[BWFC_Insane]

Reeves, Mansion House, seems to have gone ga ga. Wants to deregulate financial markets for growth. I hear you, Rachael. Has the taxpayer finished paying for the last deregulated crash yet? (Answer: No, it's still on the bail out balance sheet)...It's like listening to boom n bust Lawson in the 80's...

How dare you cast aspersions about the folk in our banks and financial industries. They are the very finest people in the world who absolutely do not need to be tied up in government red tape.

What’s a man meant to do when he’s got money burning a hole in his pocket and the ability to bet against and crash sterling all in one afternoon?

Also in a similar vein lot of fuss about pension fund consolidation Reeves is pushing. Again how dare people suggest that large fund managers maybe aren’t the best people to look after small and essential pension pots. Finest folk in the world. Let them get on with it. Those Friday night oyster and coke sessions won’t pay for themselves.

[Worthy4England]

Reeves, Mansion House, seems to have gone ga ga. Wants to deregulate financial markets for growth. I hear you, Rachael. Has the taxpayer finished paying for the last deregulated crash yet? (Answer: No, it's still on the bail out balance sheet)...It's like listening to boom n bust Lawson in the 80's...

How dare you cast aspersions about the folk in our banks and financial industries. They are the very finest people in the world who absolutely do not need to be tied up in government red tape.

What’s a man meant to do when he’s got money burning a hole in his pocket and the ability to bet against and crash sterling all in one afternoon?

Quite, mate. I don't know when the tears will come for the taxpayer, but I bet they will...The shareholders of course, will do ok, assuming they get out before the inevitable (I mean pretty difficult for most people to understand what's in a "packaged derivative" when the finance houses aren't sure what's in 'em either). Fcuk me.

[Hoboh]

News just in,

Jodrell bank and all telescopes have been told to scan the heavens for a new black hole before Reeves has her next budget.

Keir Starmer could become first PM to meet China premier Xi Jinping since Theresa May in 2018 as they attend G20 summit in Brazil next week

Racking up his Co2 contribution, yet again, very green labour policy.

[Hoboh]

I see the pensioners winter fuel allowance landed in Russia last night.

[Worthy4England]

And every day since Boris first declared support..at £13bn...wonder where tgat was budgeted...

[TANGODANCER]

I see the pensioners winter fuel allowance landed in Russia last night.

Makes one wonder why any truly sane person would want to be in charge of the mayhem that lives under the title "Politics" ?. I mean, it's very obvious the joke book we call Law which actually began with various Monrchies and has, after centuries of misrule and several major wars, left us with a cauldron of unsolvable debt and economic crackpottery that would make any serios thinkers envy Robinson Crusoe. Instead, they fight for the Number 10 postal address trying to convince the masses that depriving the pensioners of television licences and Winter fuel Allowances is good for them.

Well, I suppose the worst that can happen after four years of globtrotting, riding about in limousines under security that costs millions and amassing personal fortunes, will soon pass and maybe be known as " Sir/Maam" at the end of it is some form of answer. The Country? oh well that will be sombody else's problem. Don't forget to Vote, by the way...

[Hoboh]

1. Rachel Reeves, Chancellor: Sister of Cabinet Office minister Ellie Reeves. Husband Nick Joicey is a senior civil servant at DEFRA. Brother-in-law John Cryer is a Labour peer.
2.Wes Streeting, Health Secretary: Partner Joe Dancey is Labour's executive director of policy and communication.
3. Pat McFadden, Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: Wife Marianna is a special adviser.
5. Ellie Reeves, Cabinet Office minister: Sister Rachel Reeves is Chancellor, husband John Cryer is a Labour peer.6. Maria Eagle, defence minister: Sister Angela Eagle is a Home Office Minister
7. John Healey, Defence Secretary: Family member is a civil servant
8. Heidi Alexander, Transport Secretary: Husband is General Counsel at Ofcom.
9. Georgia Gould, Cabinet Office minister: Husband Alex is a special adviser, father Philip Gould worked for Tony Blair, mother Gail Rebuck is a Labour peer.
10. Jonathan Reynolds, Business Secretary: Wife Claire is political director in No10.
11. Lord Livermore, Treasury minister: Partner Seb Dance is deputy mayor of London.
12. James Murray, Treasury minister: Partner is a civil servant.
13. Hamish Falconer, Foreign Office minister: Father is Labour peer and former Cabinet minister Charlie Falconer.
14. Baroness Chapman, Foreign Office minister: Husband Nick Smith is a Labour MP.
15. Alex Norris, Housing minister: Wife is Labour MP Emma Foody.
16. Lillian Greenwood, Transport minister: Family member is a civil servant, another works for an MP.
17. Stephanie Peacock, Culture minister: Partner is Jonathan Ashworth, Labour Together CEO and a former MP.
18. Baroness Blake, Government whip in the House of Lords: Mother of Labour MP Olivia Blake.
19. Baron Cryer, Government whip in the House of Lords: Married to Ellie Reeves and brother-in-law of Rachel Reeves.
20. Baroness Anderson, Government whip in the House of Lords: Partner is an MP.
21. Kate Dearden, Government whip in House of Commons: Partner is a civil servant.
22.Martin McCluskey, Government whip in House of Commons: Partner is a civil servant.
23.Vicky Foxcroft, Government whip in House of Commons: Partner works for Labour Party.
24. Chris Elmore, Government whip in House of Commons : Partner works for the Labour Party.
25.Baroness Smith of Cluny, Advocate General for Scotland: Youngest daughter of ex-Labour leader John Smith. Mother is a life peer.
26. Matthew Pennycook, Housing minister: Partner is a civil servant.
27. Diana Johnson, Home Office minister: Family member is a civil servant.
28. Baroness Hayman, Environment minister: Family member is a civil servant.

Nepotism and who you are related, cohabiting with, who'd ever have guessed.

Apparently, the Tories had eleven.