The Politics Thread

[Prufrock]

The fact they didn’t close off the loophole is entirely the governments fault at the time.

There is no loophole. The family in question were granted asylum on the basis of the right to a family life under Article 8 of the HRA.

It was a bizarre exchange between the two leaders.

Yes but they applied through a scheme that wasn’t intended to be used for non Ukrainians. And initially it was ruled that the lack of a resettlement scheme ruled them out. It was on appeal that the decision was changed - but had the framework been more explicit then it’s quite possible the appeal would have been unsuccessful.

It’s perfectly possible to establish that in UK law. I’m not suggesting we should by the way. We should not breach international law or the HRA. And I completely disagree with Starmer suggesting we should.

But that’s what I suspect will happen.

The Ukraine scheme is a red herring. They applied using that form following HO guidance but were clear from the start they knew they weren't eligible for the scheme, but were just using the form.

The initial decision (ie by the Home Office) was refusal on the basis they weren't eligible for the scheme, but that was an error and a case of "computer says no".

The tribunal decisions, which are what matter now, were as Nichaldo says a classic Art 8 HRA claim. The only relevance is the absence of a specific scheme for Gaza, which is for Parliament to decide (rightly or wrongly, they did not).

FWIW, I think it's reasonable to object to a decision that allows entry to a family on the basis of the human rights of another family member they haven't seen in 17 years (albeit the judge found they were close).

That's a more fundamental issue though, as both judges found that right to be engaged, they just differed on the balancing exercise.

[Worthy4England]

Hoboh comes out in favour of EU army is not a development I saw coming.

That's unelected elite beaurocrats and an EU army in just one page...he'll be angling after rejoining soon, to sort out the mess left behind...

[TANGODANCER]

The rest of the world caught us up, so our "Welcome to U.K." doormat is totally worn out. It was always going to happen sometime, so "cheap, cheap" is now strictly for the birds..Spain wanting to throw tourism out is as good an indication of welcome to reality as there is. "Manuel" is no longer willing to have three jobs whilst working for tips and pesos. And we act surprised...?

[Worthy4England]

The rest of the world caught us up, so our "Welcome to U.K." doormat is totally worn out. It was always going to happen sometime, so "cheap, cheap" is now strictly for the birds..Spain wanting to throw tourism out is as good an indication of welcome to reality as there is. "Manuel" is no longer willing to have three jobs whilst working for tips and pesos. And we act surprised...?

Not sure we're at all surprised mate. The problem is if all these countries are growing (and they broadly are), why are wages so stagnant? Well that'd be to increase profits. They're not going to Manuel to improve his lot.

[BWFC_Insane]

The rest of the world caught us up, so our "Welcome to U.K." doormat is totally worn out. It was always going to happen sometime, so "cheap, cheap" is now strictly for the birds..Spain wanting to throw tourism out is as good an indication of welcome to reality as there is. "Manuel" is no longer willing to have three jobs whilst working for tips and pesos. And we act surprised...?

Not sure we're at all surprised mate. The problem is if all these countries are growing (and they broadly are), why are wages so stagnant? Well that'd be to increase profits. They're not going to Manuel to improve his lot.

Indeed. One might also from the other side argue that individual productivity has gone down hence the need for more workers to create the same growth hence relatively stagnant wages.

The bottom line is that late stage capitalism means pretty stagnant wages and rising prices. Whether you like it or not that’s what it means and is broadly out of control of governments. What people need to answer is how bad that is and what the viable alternative is - and critically what the necessary trade offs would be.

Trump is offering late stage capitalism on steroids and as prices rise and they cut public services and unemployment rises they will have to decide if that’s what they want. They may need to hurry up if they want a real choice though.

[Hoboh]

Hoboh comes out in favour of EU army is not a development I saw coming.

That's unelected elite beaurocrats and an EU army in just one page...he'll be angling after rejoining soon, to sort out the mess left behind...

No chance. Given the way many EU countries fund their defence I wouldn't rely on many of them to be anything other than a pain.

[TANGODANCER]

The rest of the world caught us up, so our "Welcome to U.K." doormat is totally worn out. It was always going to happen sometime, so "cheap, cheap" is now strictly for the birds..Spain wanting to throw tourism out is as good an indication of welcome to reality as there is. "Manuel" is no longer willing to have three jobs whilst working for tips and pesos. And we act surprised...?

Not sure we're at all surprised mate. The problem is if all these countries are growing (and they broadly are), why are wages so stagnant? Well that'd be to increase profits. They're not going to Manuel to improve his lot.

Indeed we're not, and that was my point. When something starts being blatantly unworkable, carrying on with it isn't going to solve anything. I totally agree that profit increasing is the villain in a clown's mask, but where's the solution to that? The Phonecians travelled and traded the world on conch-shells and spices(figurative) without any finance, then along came the bean counters who realised the way to create a market was to create a demand and grab all the supplies. Have and Have-nots was born and gold became the new currency.

History claims the Knight's Templars were the world's first bankers, but why need banks if equality was the aim? Power is the great deterrent, be it via atomic bombs or off-shore accounts. None of what I say matters, or will change a thing but at least I admit it in a world where an X on a piece of paper can determine the next clown act. Dance on....

Incidentally, the Knights Templar, were French.

[Worthy4England]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

[Harry Genshaw]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

[BWFC_Insane]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Though this to me misses the point. It’s quaint calling Truss an over promoted milk monitor. Though somewhat a steal I suspect from Spicer. But still.

However the folks that influenced truss - the real bad folks are still at large. Spreading their economic nonsense and bile. Unchecked. Frequently given media appearances. Frequently referred to as ‘experts’ often without any counter whatsoever. And it’s only a matter of time before these goons are able to attach their madcap project to a leader who isn’t as hapless as truss or is more dangerous because they manage to subvert democracy.

The IEA quietly slipped away from the Truss project and I note have recently been talking about it with absolutely zero accountability as though it was ‘just a bad dream’. Dangerous extremism given time by our increasingly failing media.

Let’s not forget Farage described the truss budget as ‘the best budget since the 80’s’. That’s what we are dealing with. The idea that Truss herself was the problem is for the birds. A useless, thick as mince puppet who was desperate for power and was used. They messed up. Badly. But only because they went too far down the food chain for sake of quick success.

[Hoboh]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Plus one there Harry, plus one. She was the original design, albeit alcohol fuelled, for the Robotic females now in government.

[Worthy4England]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Her speech. Just bizarre. fcuking Muskrats? There is plenty that needs fixing - I think whether right/left most would agree. The problem is, it just takes one of the soundbites to point at something (that probably won't fix the problem) and they all shout burn the witch.

"We want a Trump revolution in Britain" - No
"We want to flood the zone." - Eh? - No
"We want Elon and his nerd army of Musk rats examining the British deep state." - No
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we missed the first American revolution in 1776, in fact it was a revolution against us. But we want to be part of the second American Revolution. - Absolutely fcuking no.

It's so sycophantic, it's makes me wanna vomit. (Oh and maybe they could donate to Trusses new "free speech network"). Arse licker.

[Hoboh]

The rest of the world caught us up, so our "Welcome to U.K." doormat is totally worn out. It was always going to happen sometime, so "cheap, cheap" is now strictly for the birds..Spain wanting to throw tourism out is as good an indication of welcome to reality as there is. "Manuel" is no longer willing to have three jobs whilst working for tips and pesos. And we act surprised...?

Not sure we're at all surprised mate. The problem is if all these countries are growing (and they broadly are), why are wages so stagnant? Well that'd be to increase profits. They're not going to Manuel to improve his lot.

Indeed. One might also from the other side argue that individual productivity has gone down hence the need for more workers to create the same growth hence relatively stagnant wages.

The bottom line is that late stage capitalism means pretty stagnant wages and rising prices. Whether you like it or not that’s what it means and is broadly out of control of governments. What people need to answer is how bad that is and what the viable alternative is - and critically what the necessary trade offs would be.

Trump is offering late stage capitalism on steroids and as prices rise and they cut public services and unemployment rises they will have to decide if that’s what they want. They may need to hurry up if they want a real choice though.

Quite a fair summary if I may say so is that.

[Hoboh]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Her speech. Just bizarre. fcuking Muskrats? There is plenty that needs fixing - I think whether right/left most would agree. The problem is, it just takes one of the soundbites to point at something (that probably won't fix the problem) and they all shout burn the witch.

"We want a Trump revolution in Britain" - No
"We want to flood the zone." - Eh? - No
"We want Elon and his nerd army of Musk rats examining the British deep state." - No
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we missed the first American revolution in 1776, in fact it was a revolution against us. But we want to be part of the second American Revolution. - Absolutely fcuking no.

It's so sycophantic, it's makes me wanna vomit. (Oh and maybe they could donate to Trusses new "free speech network"). Arse licker.

Some of the stuff, such as waste of funds is well over due, expecting other nations to pay their whack of defence, fair enough, but, and I mean this Trump and Tusk are acting like big babies in public probably to deflect from their and their pals get richer quick program.

[Prufrock]

What exactly is "late stage capitalism"? It's a term often thrown around that gets a little cheer, but I'm never clear on what exactly it means. It reminds me of you sort of thing Commie Pru would have said when I first joined here

[BWFC_Insane]

What exactly is "late stage capitalism"? It's a term often thrown around that gets a little cheer, but I'm never clear on what exactly it means. It reminds me of you sort of thing Commie Pru would have said when I first joined here

Classically it’s transition away from mass production and industry into technologically driven innovations and industries coupled with rising inequality and wealth accumulation.

Which I think is fair. But for me most of it can be encapsulated with the simple idea that shareholders and investors are now so wealthy that they are almost entirely divorced from the success or failure of the societies in which their investments sit. No longer is it a return with some sort of conscience it’s a line on a graph going up - with zero accountability or interest in anything else.

People link it to ‘globalization’ which clearly plays a part but isn’t the total story and is often the distraction from reality.

You can look at the rental market as an example. Where some landlords are so big that any attempts rent control means they simply withdraw supply increasing demand and raising prices. It’s a continual battle and a far cry from an ability of governments to have some regulatory control. Big tech another example. Completely unmanageable - so big that they can’t be reeled in yet laying people off on a whim.

[Worthy4England]

What exactly is "late stage capitalism"? It's a term often thrown around that gets a little cheer, but I'm never clear on what exactly it means. It reminds me of you sort of thing Commie Pru would have said when I first joined here

Classically it’s transition away from mass production and industry into technologically driven innovations and industries coupled with rising inequality and wealth accumulation.

Which I think is fair. But for me most of it can be encapsulated with the simple idea that shareholders and investors are now so wealthy that they are almost entirely divorced from the success or failure of the societies in which their investments sit. No longer is it a return with some sort of conscience it’s a line on a graph going up - with zero accountability or interest in anything else.

People link it to ‘globalization’ which clearly plays a part but isn’t the total story and is often the distraction from reality.

You can look at the rental market as an example. Where some landlords are so big that any attempts rent control means they simply withdraw supply increasing demand and raising prices. It’s a continual battle and a far cry from an ability of governments to have some regulatory control. Big tech another example. Completely unmanageable - so big that they can’t be reeled in yet laying people off on a whim.

I am a bit confused like Pru about what Big Tech is...

[Worthy4England]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Her speech. Just bizarre. fcuking Muskrats? There is plenty that needs fixing - I think whether right/left most would agree. The problem is, it just takes one of the soundbites to point at something (that probably won't fix the problem) and they all shout burn the witch.

"We want a Trump revolution in Britain" - No
"We want to flood the zone." - Eh? - No
"We want Elon and his nerd army of Musk rats examining the British deep state." - No
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we missed the first American revolution in 1776, in fact it was a revolution against us. But we want to be part of the second American Revolution. - Absolutely fcuking no.

It's so sycophantic, it's makes me wanna vomit. (Oh and maybe they could donate to Trusses new "free speech network"). Arse licker.

Some of the stuff, such as waste of funds is well over due, expecting other nations to pay their whack of defence, fair enough, but, and I mean this Trump and Tusk are acting like big babies in public probably to deflect from their and their pals get richer quick program.

You reckon old Elon will go aggressively after NASA, with whom there are a lot of SpaceX contracts? Agree on the get rich quick programme that's what should be getting people angry. Tusk? Dunno what's he said? I don't spend a lot of time following Poland, but he recently seems to be echoing the pay your whack thing - which I think is right. that they do.

[Hoboh]

Reading about Truss and Farage getting their heads patted by the US, I wondered why they don't just move there - then I remembered Trump and Elon will grift all the cash over there, so they're gonba have to grift it in a much smaller pond. Did we really leave the EU to copycat the US on a worse footing (still waiting for that comprehensive trade deal)? I guess there's plenty of guillible folks left, con me once more fool you, con me twice more fool me.

If there's one politician who really grinds my gears and who I'd happily never hear another peep from for the rest of my days, it's Liz fecking Truss.

When I try to remind myself that things aren't as bad as they're painted on social media, that the UK isn't really going to hell in a handcart I then remember that this dim witted, clichéd, over promoted milk monitor was, however briefly, the leader of our country. Feckin shameful.

Her speech. Just bizarre. fcuking Muskrats? There is plenty that needs fixing - I think whether right/left most would agree. The problem is, it just takes one of the soundbites to point at something (that probably won't fix the problem) and they all shout burn the witch.

"We want a Trump revolution in Britain" - No
"We want to flood the zone." - Eh? - No
"We want Elon and his nerd army of Musk rats examining the British deep state." - No
"Ladies and Gentlemen, we missed the first American revolution in 1776, in fact it was a revolution against us. But we want to be part of the second American Revolution. - Absolutely fcuking no.

It's so sycophantic, it's makes me wanna vomit. (Oh and maybe they could donate to Trusses new "free speech network"). Arse licker.

Some of the stuff, such as waste of funds is well over due, expecting other nations to pay their whack of defence, fair enough, but, and I mean this Trump and Tusk are acting like big babies in public probably to deflect from their and their pals get richer quick program.

You reckon old Elon will go aggressively after NASA, with whom there are a lot of SpaceX contracts? Agree on the get rich quick programme that's what should be getting people angry. Tusk? Dunno what's he said? I don't spend a lot of time following Poland, but he recently seems to be echoing the pay your whack thing - which I think is right. that they do.

sorry mate was nothing to do with the EU dingbat Tusk, it was a play on Trump and Muskrat.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Don't forget that a lot of pay your whack is simply buy more arms from American companies. Arbitrary percentages are bollocks. How about figure out capability requirements/desires, price it, put it in the budget and fund it. You can even break it down into essentials (definitely fund it), should have it (next priority in funding) and would like it (fund it when can afford it if still want it then).