The Politics Thread

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

And to answer your question, therein lies the rub. I had to speak directly to an MEP, and have a discourse with a European Commissioner, to find out that the authorship of the Payment Service Directive of 2007 was actually a mostly British concern. And this is where the discussion becomes toxic. Most people haven't the first clue where we have and haven't influence. But we do.

Did we face any opposition along the way?

Because Norway can initiate market legislation with the Commission.

I agree that this sort of thing is under discussed, and I keep going on about it because it is the ONLY way to evaluate our EU membership.

[Lord Kangana]

Yes, but if we were only EEA members, then the changes that were made by the lobbying of MEP's and the European Parliament, including questions being asked, by me amongst others, would not have been possible. In other words, it is less democratic for me. Who, previously, was screwed over by the laissez-faire legislation that originated from our own government. I've experienced European democracy, and I've found it to be more approachable, the complete opposite of the ignorant horseshit I chance upon in The Dialy Mail, for example.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Yes, but if we were only EEA members, then the changes that were made by the lobbying of MEP's

What was the substance of these changes? Was there any opposition?

[Lord Kangana]

The substance was small, but significant. It would have made a world of difference in our case. The oppostion was, as you well know, from our own government, who were perfectly happy with the "light touch regulation" already on the statute book. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that in my experience of both parliaments, the European one felt less stand-offish and condescending. Amenable, open to suggestion (and criticism! heaven forfend) and more importantly, operated on a basis of constant learning.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Just a side question, for my own education - when have we ever dispatched Redwood to Europe?

And in what sense is he a 'pygmy'?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The substance was small, but significant. It would have made a world of difference in our case. The oppostion was, as you well know, from our own government, who were perfectly happy with the "light touch regulation" already on the statute book. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that in my experience of both parliaments, the European one felt less stand-offish and condescending. Amenable, open to suggestion (and criticism! heaven forfend) and more importantly, operated on a basis of constant learning.

So our MEPs were taking on the UK government?!

[Lord Kangana]

Redwood was just an illustrative example! For the life of me I don't know why he's taken so seriously within The Tory party. And he expounds the kind of one-dimensional views on this that drive me to distraction.

As for the MEPs, they weren't directly taking them on, I'm talking about my democratic rights within the existing framework. I have a right of appeal, and voice, that I wouldn't experience if we switched from EEA to EU. But would still be subject, along with the rest of the UK, to its laws. Ergo, being simply EEA would be less, not more, democratic for the purposes of this discussion than remaining EU.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Redwood was just an illustrative example! For the life of me I don't know why he's taken so seriously within The Tory party. And he expounds the kind of one-dimensional views on this that drive me to distraction.

As for the MEPs, they weren't directly taking them on, I'm talking about my democratic rights within the existing framework. I have a right of appeal, and voice, that I wouldn't experience if we switched from EEA to EU. But would still be subject, along with the rest of the UK, to its laws. Ergo, being simply EEA would be less, not more, democratic for the purposes of this discussion than remaining EU.

He a serious intellect however strongly you disagree with him and will reason everything he says at length at necessary. He's a been a fellow of All Souls, Oxford for 40 years.

Can you explain what you mean by how helpful the EU processes were to you in more detail? Where were you able to appeal that would have been denied without our membership?

[Lord Kangana]

Well, just like our Parliamentary process, I contacted the law-makers directly through my MEP (actually, through someone else's, but I was a spokesperson for a group, so the process remains the same). As far as I understand it, we wouldn't have this democratic right under EEA. Bearing in mind that in the European Parliament you have to have a sponsor MEP to be able to ask questions of a commissioner. And also bear in mind that Norway is also subject to the PSD's, but has no process for individuals to challenge them. If the process is through their own Parliament, then we would never have had the questions asked, as our government saw no merit in them.

[Harry Genshaw]

He a serious intellect however strongly you disagree with him and will reason everything he says at length at necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

He a serious intellect however strongly you disagree with him and will reason everything he says at length at necessary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIwBvjoLyZc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's it?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Well, just like our Parliamentary process, I contacted the law-makers directly through my MEP (actually, through someone else's, but I was a spokesperson for a group, so the process remains the same). As far as I understand it, we wouldn't have this democratic right under EEA. Bearing in mind that in the European Parliament you have to have a sponsor MEP to be able to ask questions of a commissioner. And also bear in mind that Norway is also subject to the PSD's, but has no process for individuals to challenge them. If the process is through their own Parliament, then we would never have had the questions asked, as our government saw no merit in them.

I don't understand - did your case call for a 'Decision', in the formal sense of that word in EU law, from the EP?

Or was it about future legislation and not an adjudication on a specific case?

If we were out of the EU, our currency exchange companies operating domestically would not have to abide by PSDs anyway, surely? And then your democratic process would be through your MP as usual.

[Lord Kangana]

The PSD is a maximum harmonisation piece of legislation. It carries weight in the EEA aswell as the EU. My point stands.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The PSD is a maximum harmonisation piece of legislation. It carries weight in the EEA aswell as the EU. My point stands.

Domestic currency exchangers in Norway are not subject to PSD.

[Lord Kangana]

So the Norwegians are allowed to transfer money across borders within the EU but are exempt from PSD's?

[Relentless09]

This form of politics youns speak of sounds much more intelligent compared to the my firework can hit a police line 100 metres away.

[thebish]

The PSD is a maximum harmonisation piece of legislation. It carries weight in the EEA aswell as the EU. My point stands.

Domestic currency exchangers in Norway are not subject to PSD.

are you two both economics masters - or are you both just running to and from wikipaedia et al??

[Lord Kangana]

Sadly, bish, I've had to live all this. I still have a hard copy of the PSD's somewhere. All 3000 pages with annexes. I love a good bit of EU bureaucracy.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

So the Norwegians are allowed to transfer money across borders within the EU but are exempt from PSD's?

Not if they are serving customers in the EU.

But what if it is a Norwegian business just serving Norwegians?

Perhaps you're right and this is a very specific and unusual example because it involves the Euro currency?


But are there people operating currency exchanges involving the Euro in, say, China?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The PSD is a maximum harmonisation piece of legislation. It carries weight in the EEA aswell as the EU. My point stands.

Domestic currency exchangers in Norway are not subject to PSD.

are you two both economics masters - or are you both just running to and from wikipaedia et al??

I can't think what I've said that could come from Wikipedia.

I did a law degree which included a the EU as a compulsory module, but perhaps my knowledge isn't detailed enough for the details of currency exchanges, which is LK's area of unfortunate expertise.